Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries derail

Reviews, Videos, and Everything Else Trollshido
81

Terrafirma, I really do not like the tone of your late postings. Maybe it is the difference between my Latin blood (Romanians are Latins basically, for the record) versus your British (or whatever) rigour. Maybe it is that you cannot see the main issue because of procedural details. Maybe you trust Tony, which is your right.
As for me, I care about 2 things:

  1. TA claim to 3 world KF titles
  2. TA claims of many brutal unnecessary killings
    TA cannot prove 1 (diplomas, independent confirmations; illegal fights argument is BS in my opinion), while his evolution is not consistent with 2 (a Christian in his shoes should serve time in prison and preach from there). For 1 and 2 points, TA verbal testimonies are available on the net. No need to waste your time with the book.
82

[quote=terrafirma;2282601]

  1. It is someone who has not read TA’s book, but speaks as if he has authority on the matter. [/quote]
    What incorrect statements about the book has he made? Please list them carefully.
  1. It is someone who has made such a final judgement that you would think he had at least a grasp of the basic facts, when in fact he has not.
    Is this because he said the tiger story is fantasy? The tiger story is fantasy.
83

Terrafirma,
I have done and am doing research and making contact with people and organizations outside of this forum to get to the bottom of this.
What i am in the process of doing i cannot post for obvious reasons.
With all due respect you seam to be somebody who is interested in entering debates on a forum and full of suggestions for others but as yet have not contributed anything to the investigation other than your own opinions.

This is an investigation , not a witch hunt, if you can provide evidence/research that proves Tony to be telling truth or lie then it would be of great value.
Simply being critical of others without doing anything yourself is no help at all.

When people are arrested on suspicion of a crime they are read there rights which include “You have the right to remain silient , however should you chose to do so this may be held against you in a court of law”
There is a very good reason for this.

Tony has been presented with the suspected falsehoods and has chosen to remain silent as far as not provide any answers.

This has made him look guilty to many , you cannot blame people here for that.

The fact that people have called BS on his story is his own fault for not proving anything.

I only recently found out that there are actually christian organizations that look into things like this.

I am going to be interested to see how Tony deals with the questions when presented by these respected organizations.

84

[quote=terrafirma;2282598]Overseas: Please read the above reply from Santeria very carefully. Santeria is one of the most prolific posters on this matter. If I have time this morning I will give a more detailed and considered reply to his post. But for now note the following:

  1. Santeria has not read Tony’s book. All he has done is sit with a friend for an evening mocking and laughing at bits of it as they read parts aloud to one another.

  2. He does not even have a copy to refer to when making his allegations.

  3. He does not have the time to read it, but does have the time to compose lengthy posts on this forum, which lack careful research.

  4. He is dedicated to destroying TA with whatever means he can come up with - even playing dirty if the end justifies the means.

  5. He has no interest in reaching the truth, but has made his judgement and will stick to it whatever the truth turns out to be. In fact he is not interested in bringing light to bear on the matter.

And finally for now, some questions for us all to consider: What does BS mean? Can you point to anyone posting on this forum who is full of it? If so, who?[/quote]

For the record

  1. I am a she not a he
  2. I have sat thought hours of Tony’s videos and researched Tony and his associates using google and my main concerns relate to claims that Tony makes on his videos and that his associates have made in their own bios and in interviews.
  3. I have not made a judgment that Tony is a liar, as I have said repeatedly I am open to the possibility that he really is a murderer and a criminal. In fact I have no doubt that he is a criminal as either he is or he isn’t telling the truth about his criminal activities. Either way he is one kind of criminal, either a murderer or a fraud. The credible concerns expressed by a Christian evangelist that Tony stole his work suggest that Tony could be a thief too.

Your slinging mud at me as an attempt to draw the attention away from Tony is not going to work.

I suspect that you will keep trying though - "meh*

85

I got confused by the Christmas name changes. Sorry.

86

no need for an apology

:slight_smile:

I only chose the name as I had read an amusing account of Santeria Claus, a fascinating being who delivers eviscerated chickens down the chimney at Yuletide

87

[quote=terrafirma;2282601]No. Try again.

To help you let me give you a couple of clues:

  1. It is someone who has not read TA’s book, but speaks as if he has authority on the matter.

  2. It is someone who has made such a final judgement that you would think he had at least a grasp of the basic facts, when in fact he has not.[/quote]

Santeria is not the subject of the investigation here.

The book is not some definitive document, I’ve not read it either, but you get the same BS from his radio and publci speeches, the source is immaterial to an extent.

TA has made claims, those claims are either lies, or truths. In the case of the deaths, that’s pretty serious if they are true, and if they aren’t, then he’s a fraud, making money off of untruths and deception.

I would advise against attempting to deflect attention away from TA by nitpicking at other’s research methods, the audience here is too astute to fall for it, and you’ll just look like a sockpuppet, which perhaps you are.

88

[quote=Terraform;2282606]

I only recently found out that there are actually christian organizations that look into things like this.

I am going to be interested to see how Tony deals with the questions when presented by these respected organizations.[/quote]

^^^

This is fantastic news and I am very pleased to hear it

I think that proper, credible, Christian organisations are the very best people to deal with investigating Tony as it is easy for Tony’s supporters to accuse non-Christians as having some kind of agenda.

I look forward to seeing how things develop.

89

[quote=Santeria Claus;2282613]^^^

This is fantastic news and I am very pleased to hear it

I think that proper, credible, Christian organisations are the very best people to deal with investigating Tony as it is easy for Tony’s supporters to accuse non-Christians as having some kind of agenda.

I look forward to seeing how things develop.[/quote]

I wholeheartedly agree. Let’s not forget in days to come that we are agreed on this.

Santeria: Are you happy to accept the outcome of such an investigation, even if it does not come out in support of your prejudices?

I would respectfully ask that we all lay our prejudices aside, if at all possible, so that we can pursue this matter to its conclusion.

Personally, my only concern is to reach the truth.

90

[quote=terrafirma;2282616]I wholeheartedly agree. Let’s not forget in days to come that we are agreed on this.

Santeria: Are you happy to accept the outcome of such an investigation, even if it does not come out in support of your prejudices?

I would respectfully ask that we all lay our prejudices aside, if at all possible, so that we can pursue this matter to its conclusion.

Personally, my only concern is to reach the truth.[/quote]

I will tell you about my prejudices

I hate, and I mean really hate criminals who use claims of Godliness to exploit others. This hatred is not restricted to Christian criminals, but to anyone of whatever religion who uses their position to dupe, trick and abuse people.

This is a subject I know a very great deal about.

I mentioned the character Harry Powell in an earlier post as to me Harry Powell is a memorable depiction of a psychopathic Christian criminal

In that same film, the original Night of the Hunter (not the remake) there is a character called Rachel Cooper.

To me Harry Powell represents false Christianity. Rachel Copper represents true Christianity.

Of course the film is all about human desire to believe in good, even when evil is staring them in the face. It is also about female desire specifically, desire to be loved and accepted.

I would recommend the film to you

You can even see it on youtube, here is the introduction where you get to meet first Rachel Cooper and then Harry Powell

YouTube- The Night of the Hunter 1955 pt1

The whole Tony Anthony phenomena reminds me of this film a lot. Not that Tony is going round murdering widows, but that the film shows very powerfully how an evil man can worm his way into the hearts and minds of good people providing he has sufficient charisma to convince them that he is a man of God.

What we need here is a real life Rachel Cooper and I’m hoping that the Christian organisations terrafom mentioned are going to fulfill this role.

91

what outcome exactly

[quote=terrafirma;2282616]Santeria: Are you happy to accept the outcome of such an investigation, even if it does not come out in support of your prejudices?

I would respectfully ask that we all lay our prejudices aside, if at all possible, so that we can pursue this matter to its conclusion.
[/quote]

Once I have expressed my dislike to your posts, I continue on a moderate tone.
You make it sound like a big philosophy here, like some complicated scientific process. I am a Christian and I am preparing a document to circulate among evangelicals. Other Christian organizations are taking the matter to scrutiny, as well. OK. What outcome should I expect from those organizations ? What if they conclude that ‘TA is a respectable preacher and his past seems to be the one described by him’ , with no evidence provided ? Should I accept that verdict ?
No sir, no way. I do not care who is investigating what. I keep my eyes oon Tony. If somebody makes him produce hard evidence (regarding the world title) and proper behaviour (re his criminal past, I mean full confession and surrender to police) then GOOD. If not, I respectfully do not give 1 penny to any investigation and conclusion.

92

Occams Razor isn’t prejudicial.

93

This is the kind of thing that can happen when religious people fail to either act appropriately or to open their eyes when things are not right

http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/4732768.Church_paedophile_Hoyte_branded__monster__by_relative/

As I have said countless times here, I do not know what is going on with Tony Anthony and Avanti Ministries but lots of things do not add up and, if Tony is conning lots of Christians, or even something even worse, then it is those very Christians and possibly their children who will pay the price.

A VERY important and sobering link
http://www.inspiremagazine.org.uk/news.aspx?action=view&id=4011

94

Terrafirma

I have been following this thread throughout its entirety, I have wasted countless hours re-reading Tony’s book and i have also been in contact numerous times with TA, Wright and numerous Christian organisations in regards to TA’s claims.

I have also been in contact with Santeria Claus numerous times and she has been doing a lot of work in regards to this issue, specifically things that we cannot post on this forum.

It seems that you have skim read most of the forum as you seem to be discussing things already discussed. I am not trying to sound obnoxious, but take some time re-read again, and see if you can give us your opinion on some of the evidence presented.

After all of my contact with Tony, he seems very good at escaping questions, and the general feeling of the forum is that he will find a way out of the “Cantonese Test”.
That is why we have been looking for evidence that cannot be wriggled out of, eg. prisons terms, conflicting dates and personal records.

In my opinion there has been a much smaller amount of people simply repeating “liar, liar, liar” than actual facts proved against Tony.

95

[quote=filehelp;2282957]Terrafirma

I have been following this thread throughout its entirety, I have wasted countless hours re-reading Tony’s book and i have also been in contact numerous times with TA, Wright and numerous Christian organisations in regards to TA’s claims.

I have also been in contact with Santeria Claus numerous times and she has been doing a lot of work in regards to this issue, specifically things that we cannot post on this forum.

It seems that you have skim read most of the forum as you seem to be discussing things already discussed. I am not trying to sound obnoxious, but take some time re-read again, and see if you can give us your opinion on some of the evidence presented.

After all of my contact with Tony, he seems very good at escaping questions, and the general feeling of the forum is that he will find a way out of the “Cantonese Test”.
That is why we have been looking for evidence that cannot be wriggled out of, eg. prisons terms, conflicting dates and personal records.

In my opinion there has been a much smaller amount of people simply repeating “liar, liar, liar” than actual facts proved against Tony.[/quote]

  1. Santeria Claus, by her own admission, has not read TA’s book. How do you reconcile this candid admission with your claim that she has done “a lot of work in regards to this issue”, which would imply diligent research. Most of Santeria’s posts are nothing but hot air coming from a heavily prejudiced position.

  2. You have not presented any proveable evidence whatsoever, just opinions. If you disagree then please repost the evidence. By your own admission, in the very post quoted above, you have no incontrovertible evidence and are still looking for it.

  3. What “actual facts” have been proved? As you use the plural, please name at least two. The fact is that to date there have been none.

96

Yoj’s research method

[quote=Yoj;2282612]
The book is not some definitive document, I’ve not read it either…

I would advise against attempting to deflect attention away from TA by nitpicking at other’s research methods, quote]

Great research method Yoj!! Well done.

97

Has Crackfox read the book?

Please answer the following question: Have you read the book?

98

Santeria’s prejudices

[quote=Santeria Claus;2282623]I will tell you about my prejudices

quote]

Some of us would prefer that you lay them aside, so that you can investigate the matter impartially.

99

Terrafirma,
Do you intend to contribute in anyway or just debate with fellow posters?

100

[quote=terrafirma;2283163][quote=Santeria Claus;2282623]I will tell you about my prejudices

quote]

Some of us would prefer that you lay them aside, so that you can investigate the matter impartially.[/quote]

Every human being on this planet has prejudices

The prejudices that control us are the ones we are unconscious of

Are you aware of your prejudices?

I’m asking because you seem to have a significant bias towards defending Tony Anthony against accusations that he is a lying fantasist and a fraud.

This is an unusual situation in that the very worst accusations against Tony, including but not limited to;
Tony is a murderer, not just one time but many
Tony has seriously assaulted many people who he left disabled
Tony was effectively a hired killer / international hit man
Tony should have spent much more time in jail than he did

All of these extremely serious allegations are made by Tony himself. A man who we all know is contacting minors through social networking sites

Defend Tony against accusations of fraud and dishonesty if you like but the fact is that if Tony is telling the truth then the situation is infinitely more serious then if he is a lying fantasist.

So you tell me, are you aware of your prejudices?

What are YOU going to do to help ensure that children are protected in the churches that Tony visits?