9 posts were split to a new topic: Nothing of substance
You spelled homicide wrong, FYI.
Thanks, typo.
God, there’s another awesome microbrew name.
Homo Cider! Gay the prey away with Homo Cider!
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There’s more than air, in this bung hole!
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How’d you like dem apples?
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I have to confess that I didn’t read this answer in the day.
In my understanding, if I am to give away my natural baboonish resort to violence, as a right or a mean to survive and/or to make a living,
it is because they (…Mommyland and PopState…) are going to guarantee that I am safe and healthy enough, and that I can have the opportunity for making a living out of my means.
(Note the implicit distinction between “a living” and “surviving”)
Will the shooting of Adam Toledo lead to more police getting shot in the line of duty?
If you’re going to get shot even if you drop your gun and comply, what is the incentive for violent criminals to not go out fighting?
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I can’t even bring myself to watch the footage to see if he did something wrong. It’s too horrible to see a kid die.
I’m confused on why the PD would say the video exonerates them. Like they did with that video of the guy reaching to pull up his pants when he got on the ground. They shoot him, said he reached for something so they shot him.
As if that’s self defense rather than badly trained police.
If the rule is they get to kill you for reaching to your pants for anything, they really, really need to stop making wallets and start making ID holders to be worn around your neck at all times.
That or name badges.
I get that cops have a hard time, but Jesus Christ, fucking stop defending bullshit kills when it’s so god damned absurd to act like shooting someone “Just to be on the safe side” makes everything OK.
Let me make this point.
If reaching for things makes murder justifiable self defense to police then we should have our driver’s licenses put on a bar code on our vehicle so that the cop can see our license, proof of insurance and registration before he even talks to us.
We should make it illegal to reach for anything ever in the presence of police.
If that sounds absurd to you, then ask yourself if it’s really justifiable self defense to shoot someone because of what a cop “reasonably assumed” the person might have intended to do instead of what they actually did do.
We are asked to swallow these absurdities because cops feel threatened and they deal with lots of bad guys. The problem is they also deal with the rest of us and I don’t want my wife or nephews or dumb kids to die because they expected cops to respond to things like a regular person instead of a paranoid jaded maniac with a gun.
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Obviously unlucky for Toledo but also the cop.
Yes, Toledo complied but the cop couldn’t see him drop the weapon behind the fence, so when Toledo turned suddenly lifting his hands, the cop would assume he was still armed and fired. All of this happened in a split second under duress so the cop took a gamble and got it wrong.
He’s obviously fucked up but I think he won’t be charged with murder. I believe that his honest held belief was that Toledo was raising the pistol and therefor putting his life in danger, justifying the use of lethal force.
But is it really justifiable homocide aka self-defense when it turns out that shooting and killing another person was based on a mistake?
Doesn’t that still put the onus and responsility of wrongful death on the police?
Probably not by our present laws or even out of the sheer fact that juries are generally biased in support of police rather than the other way around but it also seems that basic logic makes it true that this cop intentionally killed based on a mistake that he was being threatened.
Either way, if surrendering is likely to end up shot to death, why risk it?
It also begs the question, pre body cam, how many more “righteous shoots” were mistakes or panic fire?
It’s the cop’s (and Police’s by extension) responsibility for the wrongful death but in short, yes, someone can claim self defence if they can prove that it was their honest held belief that their life was in danger. Prove being the key word here and I think that the body cam and CCTV evidence will back this.
So I think he might get man slaughter (or whatever the US equivalent is) but not murder. We really need Diesel in on this if he’s about.
Is there any stats to suggest that surrendering is likely to end up in death? I’d imagine that surrendering when told would lead to a higher chance of living. This event would appear to be bad luck, rather than a bad cop running amok.
Body cam is all good though for everyone involved and if anything is helping the cop here, rather than damning him.
I’m not sure if you’re average gang banger is that up on the stats
But the footage of a person just like them, complying with police commands and still getting shot to death will be resonant
True. I can’t see this ending well.
Yeah
It’s quite depressing
That’s the crux of the matter, isn’t it?
Does knowing that the cop has a reason to be mistaken when he shot the boy exonerate him from blame for the shooting?
It is reasonable to assume that this cop believed his life was in danger but it is also reasonable to assume that cops are going to be put in situations where they need to be able to make a correct determination in that split second where a mistake will get them or the another person killed.
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In a word, yes.
It was bad luck. He acted on what he through was correct and only after the event (lasting less than a second) did it turn out that he was wrong. He made no effort to turn off or conceal his body cam even after he shot Toledo, he radioed it in and was truthful in what happened and tried to render first aid. These aren’t the actions of a murderer; these are the actions of a cop who’s made a huge mistake and has tried to fix it legitimately.
However someone has died from those actions and I imagine he’ll be facing some consequences, ‘exonerated’ is a strong word and I don’t think he should be and would be let off the hook entirely. I just don’t think that people should use this event as an example of wanton police killings.