Well to be 100% fair, Has anyone E-mailed the Sijo and asked him to come defend his program? I is fun to get all worked up and talk shit, God knows i am one of the worst. But, right now this is a case of one sided aurguing.
Having said that, His own site says that FSD is the most advanced martial Art for the modern age. In one of his documents, the 2nd secrete to FSD is “being able to decive” and “acting in a deceptive manor to manipulate” Seems a little cultish and Mcdojoesk.
We need to get one of the Instructors on here to defend the program. This is not a court of law, and there is no 5th to plead. silence can be a symptom of guilt.
I am not talking about havi9ng a FSD student here I mean the big tammali. the head man or one of his top people.
already happened a couple of times. I think three or four FSD sifus, including their no. two Martin Pat. have come to try between the original article thread and Fang Shen Do I
Well and don’t forget Mansfield’s attempt to move focus off this thread and onto the Gracie thread. That was fun.
The Seafoods tend to show up and there is usually two or three posting under the same account. The problem is they can’t remember what the last person said so they end up contradicting themselves within a few sentences and then they leave (after promising for a few posts that ‘this is the last thing I’ll say’).
Remember some of the stories are fist hand accounts. I agree that some of it is conjecture and second hand stories.
Thing is I witnessed weird crap and fundememntal changes in my old dojo. Some of it was first hand some was second hand. People are scared, intimidated, and sometimes lazy. Thing you forget is sometimes you can be in the loop and still be considered an outsider.
This pissed me off severely when I’d rush my ass home from work, miss dinner, run to FSD just to make it on time for the intro shit, and low and behold a blue sash assistant is running most of the class. I mean a guy who because he paid the 4500$ and was now an “assisstant instructor” was teaching me who was doing FSD for at least 4 or 5 years longer. I’m not trying to sound arrogant, but this asst. instructor is no prodigy or super martial artist human of any sort. Even if he was an excellant marital artist, I did not pay my money and join FSD to be taught by him. People are paying 175$ a month to be taught by a blue or green sash student who have been in the FSD system for maybe a year.
Yeah, this story is true. Although, I believe it was a side kick to the throat, but I could be wrong. JP did tell her to stop pissing on her face though. Needless to say she never attended a training camp afterwards. To this date, in my opinion, she was the best female FSD practioner there was. I’d bet on her against “so called” sifu Christene (JP’s daughter) to win a fight.
lol talking about low level instructer, the blue belt (girl) every time she would explain a drill, a block, etc, after she would explain she would say “uh, does that make sence?” and go check the instructers manual they have, lol.
Are you talking about Stephan D’Amour or whatever his last name is? Is he the shorter shaved head fellow in the patenude family picture? Because if he is I grappled once with him at training camp. The guy really has no idea what grappling is so he best be good at striking. Seriously though, I really could care less what they can prove or not. I feel for the students there that are getting ripped off. I was one of them and there is so much better and more positive experiences out there for them to be part of. I mean, best case scenario, the students get a semi-good endurance class on a good day for 175 dollars a month. I’m sorry but that’s the best case scenario which isn’t much, and like I said, that’s on a good day. Other days you leave thinking that you wasted your time.
I have not meant to belittle anyone’s stories in my previous post – questionable encounters and bad experience should be shared (as well as positive IMHO, good things should be reinforced).
I would hope that wild rumours and speculation are not spread out of hand by the maliciousness of a few. But doesn’t seem to be the case here though.
If multiple rumours and stories come from various sources, then it points to a trend and then adds credence to the stories. The more stories from various sources makes the dialogue more believable and it’s no longer just a few saying bad things just because they can. 100 people saying a single negative comment in my opinion, is more telling than 1 person saying 100 negative things (the same thing goes for positive remarks).
My approach is that I’m going to shy away from believing second hand stories without corroborating evidence (I’m a natural cynic, but I try to be a polite one).
I’m rambling… and I’ve re-editied this post way too many times. Now back to what I was originally starting to post before I got side tracked…
And I agree with TKDBB, “When a school make a claim they should be able to back it up”. That was the brand issues I mentioned.
I believe it was the legendary David Ogilvy (ad guru, nothing to do with MAs) who discussed in one of his books about truth in advertising/branding (it’s been a long time since I read it so I’m paraphrasing here) was that a claim made must be true, and it is not the lawyers that will necessarily keep advertising or a brand honest but the consumers. Once a claim has been deemed to be false by the consumers, the damage to that brand can be irrepairable – and consumers that felt they have been lied to are often an unforgiving sort.
Perhaps this is the reason for a 1500+ multi-thread posts on regarding FSD… Why is it garnishing so much attention in the local MA community and within FSD itself? It can’t be just for no reason and if it were for only the bitterness of a few the thread would’ve imploded long time ago. Perhaps that is the most telling thing.
How in the hell are they charging that much? is canada full of mr. money bags? The most i can get people to pay is $60.00 and that is only if i take off half for the rest of the family.
They may not be able to fight, but they are masters of the gouge.
I understand Dindo and I think it’s important to back everything up with credible evidence. This is all we ask of FSD, so when we’re telling “stories” then we should also provide evidence. The problem I see with many people posting though is that they do not want their identity to be revealed. Some of their stories happened with only them, one other, and a sifu in the room therefor they tell it as though they heard from someone else. They are scared or simply like stringfellow said earlier - protecting their identity.
Having said that, I have to go back and clarify what I said earlier though about the “pissing on your face” story. I heard this from the girl who herself was crying, and who sigoo yelled at. She is what’s called a primary source, not secondary, therefor giving a reasonable level of credibility to her story. I guess I’m the secondary source so you can choose not to believe this story until she actually gets on her and posts. Going back to what I said earlier, I know she won’t because FSD will know who’s posting and could contact her for doing so. If she’s not afraid then I’m sure she would, but as we’ve seen and heard from others, she’s probably not going to risk it. Also, with having seafood already yell at her while she’s obviously disturbed at what happend and is crying, she probably doesn’t want to be confronted by that man again.
You know wagamichi, I never quite figured out yet why I payed that much. I guess I was drinking the “kool-aid” and don’t care for pressure sales too much. It’s interesting how they get you to buy into something. I was paying 375$ a month for quite awhile, so 175$ doesn’t even sound that bad to me anymore. There are so many students paying over 300$ a month for their training.
Good god, I wonder if they do seminars on how to take people to the bank. I have a full time dojo, and have to work a full time job on top of that. What a buch of shit heads.
I understand protecting your identity – especially in a smaller community (regional or topical like the FSD community). Especially where I have been told that the existing BBC members of my old school know who I am and have been discussing what I have written (in a negative manner, though I have not spoken to any BBC members myself, I have to take the persons word for it) – and though I am not intimidated by the fact is does get me to reread everything I post before I submit it so it has had an effect.
There have been repeated comments about JP’s behaviour in other situations discused on this thread. I happen to not question that event, though I wasn’t there. There seems to be enough agreement on that situation, and correlation that I can make a supposition on the character of the man.
I’ll start with where you agree with me, as I like to take solice in the fact that at least a few people do…
Ah to mention the name of the King of all Canadian Spin Doctors in relation to this thread. Ogilvy is far more than just an Ad Guru IMHO, he is the master and adjusting an image to properly attain one’s goals.
As much as I dearly love to see other sources noted I feel this one perhaps requires a bit of clarification before people jump on it. I don’t think anyone has been seeking ‘damage to a brand’ here but rather discourse around the issue of product expectations. As I have stated I would not suggest Tai Chi for self defense any more than I’d tell some of my 60 year old clients to take up Muay Thai for fitness. When a message is presented and the expected outcomes deviate then some will feel the need to point out this deviation. As a business professional I fully expect my clients and employers to monitor this for me. When one shuts down discourse and vails it in a ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ policy then the recourse for student’s who feel they were misled becomes reduced to very few.
TKD
PS - I would also suggest that there are some posts on this thread that seem to invite people to come out and make statements that would expose them to potential legal action via the group in focus. It may be prudent to limit one’s response in this light.