Fang Shen Do II: The Fangshizzle

Classic Forums Old School: Bullshido Classics and Mega Threads
1

I have asked the Bullshido Mods to allow me to insert an intro paragraph into this continuation of the first thread.

Welcome to the growing Internet legend of Fang Shen Do - but it began here on Bullshido with a few simple questions about the legitimacy and strange practices of a kung-fu school in Canada called Fang Shen Do.

Fang Shen Do (FSD) ostensibly translates as “Way of Survival” and is the creation of Jacques Patinaude (sJP) a self promoted martial arts ‘Grand Master’ or ‘Sijo.’

Over the years FSD has variously been known as Wing Chun Do, Modern Wing Chun and Patenaude’s Kung-Fu.

In the long threads you will find, links to where he purchased his rank - controversy around sJP’s qualifications to teach anything other then Tony Robbins Firewalking and Arrow breaking. You will also find sJP’s claims to have earned his original kung-fu rank from James DeMille (an original student of Bruce Lee), DeMille denies these claims. Oh and the thread also contains the usual flame wars, trolls and sockpuppets (but these are usually at least entertaining).

My recommendation is to sit back, pour yourself a beverage of choice and enjoy a few hours of reading.

I agree, I dont like watching fights at a rink either, if I turned up at an MMA event and a hockey game broke out, I would be pissed.

Oh and 1993 called - they want their post back. MMA and fighting have been evolving at a phenomenal rate in the last 13 years. In dog years thats more then 90 years - a long time if you smell about it.

Competition is a method to improve your fighting ability by placing you against an opponent who wants to win as much as you do. An opponent who doesnt know you from Adam, and possibly doesnt like you very much. These things make you a better fighter. Winning or loosing in the tournaments is a secondary consideration to putting it all on the line.

Those that never compete will always be undefeated - will always claim that they would win easily - their kool-aid drinking friends will be the only people that believe them.

A good solid cross-trained fighter who works wrestling/BJJ/boxing/MT etc will demolish the one-dimensional kung-fu fighter who thinks a wrist grab defence is grappling. Especially someone training techniques that were completely made up out of thin air - no proven combat effectiveness, merely anecdotal stories that prove nothing.

So you are posting on an online forum that you assaulted someone, confession is good for the soul.

2

Press Release

To all bullshitdo member:

Due to popular demand and a curiosity by the public (through internet postings), Grandmaster (Sijo) J. Patenaude will be publishing his 5th book, detailing the origins of his martial art: FANG SHEN DO. The book is scheduled to appear under the title: Fang Shen Do; The True Story.

For more information, please check this link:

[EDITED: Commercial advertisement information can be found
http://www.bullshido.net/modules.php...warticle&id=9]

Thank you

Management

3

Can someone please address this issue of spam.

TKD

4

Very well. . . .

SPAM!SpamSpamSpam
SPAM!SpamSpamSpam
SPAM!SpamSpamSpam
SpamitySPAM! Wonderful Spam!

–J. “I DON’T LIKE SPAM!!” D.

5

Here it is…

Ok, any of you that have them check out Larry Hartsells old grappling books, the ones with the lists of "concept" possible techiniques from the 80s… Bingo…there are all of your FSD techniques…in plain jane view…I kid you not…they are all there…pulled right out of the books…One of Larry`s own students pointed this out to a group of us the other day…most of them are out of the 'Entering to Trapping to Grappling" book the first one…
my my my…

6

How did Larry’s student react to this? I imagine he would be pretty pissed…

Ta Macte. Keep em coming!

7

pardon me…

I should say --the grappling fsd techniques that is…

8

well…

Thing is theyve known it for years but laugh at it..since most of that stuff was just to showcase how certain arts have a common thread, we still all rolled like crazy to find out what worked and what did not....apparantly all the stickfighting was taken from Vunaks early vids…as well as the knife fighting…and from an Inosanto seminar they attended once as well…Paul knows this as well as one of his Full Instructors in Ottawa, but they dont seem to care too much about it....Apparantly four years ago one of the fsd guys was runnign around Ottawa saying that the sifood was better and faster than Guro Dan as well, having sparred lower tier fighters myself from DBMA and come out with bruises and more than enough painful welts from the rattan I find this very hard to stomach...I had years of kali behind me at the time several years ago when this happened and thought I knew my kali, until I tried to make it work against the DBMA structure, the "holysh..." factor cut in rather quickly and it changed my entire game...It is obvious they have never been taken to task on these terms before..the horror stories of tire slashing and dojo intimidation run wild in Ottawa...too many of them..I cant seem to get them to post here, I referred them to stringfellow though…

9

Stringfellow??

You out there Stringfellow, any new ex fsd`rs contact you at all???

10

Classic, Fang Shen Do - The legend continues. We now have a double length thread.

I am seriously impressed by the information coming out in the last while.

11
  • shakes head *

You know, I would be happy to let this be and leave this DnD playing, shit sniffing bathroom cowboys alone but for one important thing!

They pass this shit off as SELD DEFENSE. Hey Fang Shen Do, you want this to go away, stop selling this crap to people as self defense.

I really hope someone doesn’t have to fail miserably in a ‘live situation’ for them to learn this lesson.

TKD

12

What the fuck is a “fang shen” anyway?

13

A fang is like a big tooth used to kill things.

Sheng’s are what happen when God divides by zero.

So really, it’s “The way of God’s fang, when it tries to divide by zero.”

14

well, I guess the value of my autographed copy of that book just went up, now I can sell it to some FSD guy as a secret bible. Wonder how a FSD sifu would do against an old man like Hartsell:ninjadanc

15

What the hell is this Fang Shen Do stuff, who created it, what does it teach, why is BS and why do people rag on it?

Too lazy for search function… im not a n00b anymore anyway. Explain. Now.

16

I’ve tried to avoid the original FSD thread (tl, ts;dr) but this caught my eye.

This shit is canadian? Like, brewed in Canada?

WTF?

Im reminded of this Cobra Kai place i found in town. how fucked up is that shit?

17

2 laz 4 U, make an effort, there’s a thread with over 1500 replies, skim through it, see you in a few weeks when your done reading okbynowthx.

18

ex-FSD student

For the price I was paying:

  • Instructors needed to be more hands on. Too many classes we would spend 5-10 minutes working on a specific kick, combo or takedown without any real supervision. The Instructors would start the drill then walk away. Maybe check in once. Didn’t really watch the students and correct them. There were some classes where it felt like the Instructor didn’t want to be there. The Instructors would seem to want to just get it over with.

  • Alot of information was skipped over. Some techniques in the student manual were rarely seen in class. A student going twice a week may never see some of the test material. That student could show up, do their test and be taught something on the spot. Then never see it again… which leads to…

  • Students passing tests who should not. I remember some students who were awful at blue level. People who would get killed by someone on the street in a real self-defense situation. Obviously you want to keep students happy and advancing, but the school’s first objective should be to preparing the students for real-life encounters. The school’s defense has always been that “some people aren’t committed to getting better. They need to put in more effort in class, they need to show up more.” That’s something that should be addressed with those students at the test. Instead they are passed to the next rank. It does a disservice to everyone if that happens. People at green level have to partner with other greens and they should get someone of that calibre. Not someone who is passed to green because they’ve put in their time. It hurts not only the students who weak, but also the students who are strong.

Sparring/Grappling:

  • I have very little experience with the FSD Sparring/Grappling classes as I only saw what was done in class and in the Sparring classes I saw at the end of regular class. But from what I can tell, it was alot of scenario’s where roles were given to each partner with very strict guidelines (kicks vs. punches, strikes vs. wrestler…) This could be effective if it was done with a goal to find a students openings and weaknesses, but it seemed it was done without supervision. Thus students could get beat and not really understand the proper technique to compensate. Having two students face off while the rest of the class watched might be a better way to run it. I’m not sure, as I don’t have any real experience with that. It just seemed like there was again, a lack of focus/supervision.

  • Grappling in class was sparse. From what I do recall, was that if I ever was on the bottom position, I was done. I could squirm, but I pretty much was going to get knocked out. Everything I saw was taught from the mount or side mount. As a self-defense it would be important to put more focus on the bottom position. I remember we talked alot about how it’s best to just avoid that situation all together by stopping the entry and take down, but in real life you could get sucker punched or pushed down without ever seeing your attacker and find yourself on the ground.

Overall, it seemed like there was a lack of realism. For a school that prides itself on having the most aggressive self-defsense system for real-life situations I felt that was the biggest thing missing. This is partly because the school spends alot of time teaching moves that they admit are useless in real life situations. The traditional moves are what makes FSD Kung Fu and not just a street self-defense class so there’s no escaping those teachings. The benefits of those moves were always explained as being for “building intensity” and “learning perimeters” etc… but that could be picked up just as quickly in sparring and grappling. Looking back a regular class could consist of

10 minute warm up
10 minutes of traditional kung fu (palm phan sao, lin sil die dar…)
20 minutes of strikes and trapping
10 minutes of exercise stations

Considering what is offered at other schools in the city for half that price, I really don’t think FSD students are getting their money’s worth.

The Ottawa BBJ Gracie school offers MMA, BJJ and Muay Thai for $20 less/month. That’s unlimited classes of MMA, BJJ and MT vs. 2 classes/week MAX at FSD.

If you want to ask: What would make me go back to FSD?

I think the onus is on the school to show that the system works. If the school held in house tournaments that would be a start. BUT like mentioned earlier, it would require students/instructors to compete outside of the school. If that was done AND the price was lowered, I would consider going back.

Thanks for listening FSD management. I appreciate that. I hope some of this is helpful!

19

As well, please refer to James Demile’s three books on the “Tao of Wing Chun Do”. sJP’s FSD is taken from these books and it is exactly word for word, technique for technique.

I guess this is his interpretation of the martial arts…care to sniff the bucket anyone??

20

Me too…

Ive got two signed books by Hartsell…and one by Guro Dan too…wanna pool our resources and get on e-bay for the fsd guys??Who`s in???
:BangHead: