Hey Shadow Beast,
One of the claims of sJP is that he was a Shotokan Black Belt before developing FSD.
At this point I would be really interested in hearing from you a comparison of Shotokan Karate with FSD to see if you found any similarities.
Hi DAY,
At this point, I dont think we are dealing with people who actually have thoughts this through to the logical end game. If they had they would not be trying to obtain the identities of posters on Bullshido.
none AT ALL, lol
from the 6 normall and 2 bbc classes i have been to, i have not seen one thing even close to shotokan in fsd, unless its higher sash stuff, otherwise no, nothing at all.
even how the shotokan kicks are done its different, my sensei always says “snap the kick” or for a round kick, snap it from your butt out, then snap it back fast to your butt (did i say it right?) the kicks, punches, blocks, “traps” in shotokan does not look like anything in fsd, while the kicks in fsd seem more like kick boxing style kicks to me.
the traps and blocks in shotokan work so much better then what i learned in my little time with fsd, it’s so easy to tell too.
i may have forgot something, let me know if i did.
edit: another funny thing, a bit off topic.
you were talking about the lack of black belts in fsd a while ago? lol its funny, in my shotokan class its FULL of black belts, and i am the lowest black belt in the class, lol
theres a few 1st dans, 2nd dans, even 3rd dans!
right now in the adult class, the lowest belt is green
(if your wondering, it works like this: white, yellow, orange, green, blue, blue 2, brown, brown 2, brown 3, black)
funny huh, so many high level belts, yet in fsd, i havent seen anything higher then green, oh, and the fsd place i was at, they have a blue belt teaching classes as an assistant, lol.
This is not getting the instruction you pay for. Fuck that, the money thing is pretty offensive to me- but poor, lacklustre disinterested teaching is unacceptable. No matter what is being taught. Calling yourself a teacher or instructor when you behave like this is not only dishonest, it is an insult to those people that deserve the title.
While I appreicate that your instructor can’t always be there to correct you and a higher graded/more experienced guy at the club can fill in for the moment, it should not be the rule. If it is, it is indicative of the quality of instruction you are getting and also the higher graded student’s acutal ability and knowledge.
Poor standards of examination leads to poor, untried students. Period.
Essentially they aren’t even paying attention to what they are supposed to have taught you or don’t know what they have taught their students.
it’s like my momma always said, you can’t trust nobody no more.
The teaching methods described by enhanced are a sticking point at the schools. We were chastized often for “teaching” other students. Sijo got upset about this on more than one occassion. We were always told that if we had a question that we were to put up our hand or whatever to get the attention of the instructor, but that we were never to teach each other. In some cases this worked fine. I come back again to sifu Scott Hill - I never had a problem with this issue in his classes. He was constantly head up, looking around, and circulating throughout the class. I rarely had to wait to get instruction, pointers, or corrections from him. Some of the other instructors, however, didn’t really seem to care. Oftentimes they would give instruction then go to the front administrative desk and busy themselves with paperwork or whatnot. It was frustrating.
Another related issue was the fact that different instructors taught the same skill in different ways. The gave different reference points and movement patterns sometimes. THAT got extremely frustrating to me. I found that the most senior guys - sifu Scott Hill, sifu Pat Marcil, sifu Stephane P., and sifu Martin P. - were all consistent and taught the same things the same way. In every other case things could be completely different. I actually had the nerve (by their standards) to say to one of my sifus that I had been taught a different way by sifu Scott. That did not go over so well. I was also chastized for presenting variations on some closing techniques that I had been taught by sifu Scott (though the sifu teaching me did not know who had taught them to me) when asked in class what the different variations were. When I explained who had taught me the techniques the instructor then refused to acknowledge me. These inconsistencies really bothered me.
Finally, the assitant instructor thing was an issue for a lot of reasons. FSD has a “Leadership team”. This is, of course, just another way for them to get money from you. I am not too sure how things work in other schools, but in FSD to “train” to become an instructor you have to pay (big surprise). You get a grey sash and a leadership team patch to sew onto your shirt. To my knowledge there is not a limit to the level you must be at to join the leadership team. As such it is theoretically possible to be a white sash and be an assistant instructor. This only made the inconsistencies of training more frustrating. I do not blame this on the assistant instructors at all. Many of them, in my opinion, tried very hard, but in many cases they were simply trying to teach things that were beyond their level of understanding. In FSD everything, including warm up excercises, are tested in promotion tests. In most cases the assistant instructors run warm ups. Often then get the teaching points wrong. While I was able to identify when they were screwing up and could follow through the correct way, I often saw flaws in the way new students performed for this reason. Certain assistants, Brad and Martin for example, were great and very helpful. Others were, well, lacking. The sifus would leave them in charge of warmups and not bother to correct any of the mistakes. In many cases full classes would be taught by an assistant. Perhaps this is regular practice in other schools, but it was very problematic from what I saw in FSD. The particular case mentioned by enhanced (I think) about a blue sash being an assistant is a prime example. How is a blue sash supposed to be able to teach a brown sash a new skill or correct him on a review skill? Simply put, he can’t. How much value, then, is the brown sash getting out of a class taught by a blue sash? Again, simply put, none.
The last thing in my rant for today is the issue of what is taught in class. I began counting. At one point I was taught exactly the same skill in seven consecutive classes taught by the same sifu. The skill was for a sash level below mine so was of no real use to me. In another case, I went twenty classes following a promotion test where I was taught no new material at all. They now push for students to test every six months. As it is recommended that you train in class twice per week, there would be roughly 48 classes between tests by their standards. By that math I went almost half way from test to test before I wa taught a new skill that I would need for my next promotion test.
Ok. Enough ranting for now. I am very excited that this thread has now been split. Knowledge is power.
Wow.
Just…wow…
That’s possibly the most scathing thing you could say about Fang Shen Do.
If Shotokant trapping works better than FSD…
FSD truly is the ultimate in suckage.
Lets hope the harsh hand of reality doesn’t come down too hard on them the first time. However I can envision a Cobra Kei-esqu situation when that happens:
John Kreese: Fear does not exist in this dojo, does it?!
Karate Student: No, Sensei!
John Kreese: Pain does not exist in this dojo, does it?!
Karate Student: No, Sensei!
John Kreese: Defeat does not exist in this dojo, does it?!
Karate Student: No, Sensei!
Dang sub in Kreese for Patenaude and Sensei for Seafood and you won’t be that far off.
On another note, we have repeatedly suggested to Fang Shen Don’t that the best way to deal with all complaints and concerns is to pony up and get in the cage/ring or on the mat. There is a huge number of events in Canada to do so. If you’re worried about losing infront of a home town audience come out west, we got this fun little show called KOTC where you can test yourself to your heart’s content.
TKD
Ok you dont understand, FSD is about real fighting. The cage (no matter how brutal) is still a game. a game to see who the most condidtiond athealete is. Like boxing!
FSD is about the real Life and death fight, that can come upon you at a moments notice. FSD is also about becoming a better person through leadership and helping out clasmates. All this talk of champoins. A “champion” Fights for self glory and ego, not out of humility and self respect. FSD honors these traites as a spiritual pursute.
Fighting in the cage may prove a few things. You can wrestle well, You are in shape, And you have drive. FSD teaches non-Athletic people that they too can defend themselves. By training in the muscle memory style of FSD the attacker will be on the ground before the attacked even knows they were in a fight. This is the power of FSD. It works…admitedly no, a 50 year old FSD grandma will not beable to beat up Ken shammrock. But niether can you BJJ mouths.
FSD is for people that want to protect themselves with a fighting style that has no rules unlike “No-holds-barred” fights with its rules. FSD will attack the eyes…ok? Or the knees…Wham! down you go with a torn ACL. FSD will bite…Gross but hard to fight while screaming in pain. FSD will use a knife! the ultimate in Anti-grappling. Thats right…A knife There is no grappling when the blade come out. But one cant use that in the cage!
Yawn What the fuck? I just had a dream that I did FSD.
(I would like to apologize for the above post. I have never studied FSD and yet i spoke as an authority on the subject. I admit that i used common lines nd sales pitches used by most Mcdojos ant Styles from the Faketrix to aurgue the merits of FSD. I wont be doing this again…)
Yeah, my posting has been pretty thin of late. There’s this thing called “real life” that keeps intruding.
To answer your question, I have heard from a few people, though no one “new” lately (I think you need something like 20 posts before you can PM anyone anyway, don’t you?). Unfortunately, it’s like you mentioned earlier - most don’t want to post themselves out of fear of some sort of retribution. Many are of the opinion that if they share their story it’ll be recognized by the management and thus their identity will be known. Sometimes they’re willing to share the stories privately, so long as I don’t talk about them. I respect that. Even if I can’t talk about sometimes it provides corroboration for something else that someone has posted about.
I have tried to encourage them to speak up themselves, even if it’s only to build on what others are posting. It can be a hard thing for someone who hasn’t been “part of the fold” to understand, but these guys can really get inside your head while you’re there. Time will tell.
Wagamichi,
You scared me there.
Dont ever let it happen again - 'Cause I carry a UFC regulation cage with me everywhere I go. That way if someone attacks me I can throw the cage down on the ground and start explaining the rules for the fight. 5 Minute rounds of course - water breaks and corner men…
The Faketrix…I love it…
That’s okay, when I’m in Ottawa this summer I will dress up as a Biker Cop (or was it the Indian…) no wait Martin likes the Construction Worker, anyways, I’ll dress up like The Construction Worker and wait for him to pick a fight ‘for real’ with me.
TKD:wave:
“Was this the man that assaulted you sir?”
FSD - this thread suggests so many possible slogans.
Such as:
Fang Shen Do - “I know I’m a 3rd generation bastard of wing chun, but I’m still the best”
Fang Shen Do - “separating foolish Canadians from their money since 1983”
Fang Shen Do - “because people up here will believe anything”
Fang Shen Do - “Patenaude - means ‘paternity test’”
and
Fang Shen Do - “smells like dog shit”
I know of an incident 3 years ago at training camp where a student got punched in the throat and could’nt breathe.
One of the female students started crying out of fear for the non breathing student and Sijo told her to stop pissing on her face.
No surprise
No surprise there at all, from what I am being told that is normal, unfortunately.
As for many of their ex students not wanting to talk…it seems to go beyond intimidation tactics…one said he had three guys show up at his apartment one night…after he`d opened hi WC school…they were in his HALLWAY…and from the sounds of things he did involve the police …this would be circa 1990 or so…I think that mnay of the ex students are fearful of strongarm tactics and that some of the threats may be real…just an opinion…but…people are people…fear is fear…and I tell you one of them swears theres more to the fsd thing than martial arts…trying to get him to talk about it…online…he was totally turned off any type of training…
this never seems to end…I am willing to bet that there are many mnay more of these ex people out there…
What the fuck ever. Cant you guys carry guns up there in Canada? What is up with this FSD shit! How can it keep going? someone needs to open up some real schools and advertise the FSD people into the ground. why dosn’t someone take the assult fine and just go in and beat the “sijos” ass infront of his class? Happens all the time. Walk in and say “hey shit bag, you can’t fight!” and then just beat his ass.
I agree
Hey I agree with you…just telling it like it is…some people here have been super freaked out for some reason…I know a JKD/MMA/Thai fighter from T.O. tried to head down to hteir head school four years ago but it was closed…he was pretty serious…and wasa stadium figher in Thailand…that wouldv`e been a good show…
All I have to say is “Holy Fuck!”
Yup…
Yup… thats about it for me as well, my buddies in Law Enforcement here have lots of “stories” too…I`ll get them online if I can…I work with a few of them…they have lots of stories, i guess a Tae Kwon Do kid…young kid walled into the head school a few years ago and he was wearing his uniform…so without missing a beat…sjp heads dwon the stairs and beats this kid up…he just finished his class and was looking for something new…not usre what happened with that one…anyone else know about this…guess the kid was a teenager…Like to see that happen to someone viable…that hit back…
I would like to see him choke to death on his own vomit after watching his family sodimized and killed infront of him.
I know guys like this “Sijo” charachter. There was one here in Indy…Steve. He had 3 or four dojo’s the classic white trash beard, charles manson eyes, and angry…I’ll kill you look on his face every moment. Even had a giant painting of himself doing a jump side kick while screaming with a full on war face. the painting (on the outside of his building) could be seen from the interstate.
He put up a bill board over his ex-teachers school that said, “For real karate drive 3 more blocks!”
Once he had a woman come in and ask about class, after the pitch she said “i dont know if i need self-sefence.” He jumped up and kicked her in the face knocking her down screaming, Looks to me like you do!
Well one day 2 thugs walk in and beat the holy shit out of him- no weapons- just some good old gangsta disiple ass beating. They then stole everything in the dojo, and trashed the place. He ain’t around any more.