Anti-vaxxers claim Tony Lister died from getting the vaccine, but he really died at 62 from catching COVID and not being super healthy at the time so he died young because of COVID induced cardiopulmonary damage on top of other shit typical for his age.
The plural of anecdote is evidence. Let’s stay 10% of the 700M “Recovered” cases have the same outcome. That’s 70M dead this year because of catching COVID last year, the year before, etc.
The flu hasn’t worked that hard in a century.
How’s this for a risk profile. This is half the civilized (Fat) world, and more than half of the US.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/20009666.2020.1781030
Published online: 02 Aug 2020
Did you catch the HCQ reference?
BMI 62, that was the risk profile easter egg.
lmfao.
Information warfare cyber, what, what, what, pro 1337, all the data are belong to me. Learn google man …
“So fuck all the fat grandmas, is what you are saying.”
Now thats what a straw man looks like. But your comment stinks of euthanasia.
Seriously COVID has killed tens of thousands of healthy people under 20.
But like I said, the death count is not the big picture anymore. People including young people developed all sorts of long term and permanent effects from COVID.
This thread is about “data driven” vaccination. The data supports getting everyone vaccinated. That’s the guidance.Because we all know what happens when people stop getting vaccination. Diseases return, often worse.
You think you’re being funny, but this statement is truly stupid.
Do you really want to go deep into how many US citizens Russian active measures directly killed via COVID because of how easy it is to manipulate people (including you) online?
How about indirectly via the dozens and dozens of seed sites designed to take things like “American medicine is evil” and find every information sucking goober out there willing to change their lifestyle over it?
We don’t have to limit that to COVID, there’s the whole Autism-vaccination scare BS that they have flared on for decades. Measles isn’t just back because some rubes decided vaccines r bad. Measles is back because Putin is effective.
The anti-vaxxer crowd is skewed heavily to the Boomer demographic. Because that group eats up bullshit like it’s candy.
Proof: Fox News ratings. People got their COVID medical info there for years, which consisted mostly of Rand Paul bitching at an actual epidemiologist in Congress.
And now people who believe Plandemic and Satan in the mRNA are not only running for government positions, they are winning them.
You nerds are focused on the data; you should be more worried about why 8-30M people had to die, and it wasn’t just a virus. The US response above all was completely torpedoed by Moscow.
People still believe Michelle Obama is a man, Barack is a Muslim, and that’s he’s secretly running the White House.
Good luck getting them to trust doctors, with that kind of attitude. Or physics. Or factual books vs shit like this. Millions of copies sold, full of conspiracy garbage, and this guy is running to be President.
Remember when people only hated Bill Gates because of DOS? Now they think he’s basically Xenu. Scientology 101.
Yeah it is funny, i actually spat out what i was drinking when i saw disproving your statement was on the first page of a google search.
Most of your response seems to be rambling about various conspiracies, so not going to touch those parts.
Yeah, using data to make large scale decisions is a scientific approach.
You talk about misinformation but you post data that came out months after the pandemic started when we were still trying to figure out what was going on (outdated). Then you post pictures to scare without any context, while simultaneously trying to silence any intelligent debate by making noise and insulting people. You are what you claim to fight against.
You certainly discredited yourself with those last few posts anyone with a functioning brain can see you know absolutely nothing about this topic, but still approach it with aggression and confidence.
You seem to be attempting to silence any intelligent conversation where you can find it, almost as if you are trying to intentionally kill off the forum. You don’t fight trolls, you are the troll. You don’t fight misinformation, you spread it.
No it doesn’t, Polio, yes, measles, yes … for many the answer is yes.
For now that is not the correct answer with MRNA, emergency is over, long term study should be completed and a focused approach to high risk individuals used when deploying.
We aren’t even getting to the real stuff … this is the obvious stuff, the real stuff is how bad was the approach, how large the impact, why did it happen, how do we avoid it in future.
One upon a time in a past life, I was an admin on an unmoderated forum, where you could say whatever you want about whatever you wanted to. Things like you crawled around there all the time …
… for the record my post is not meant to be mean, just really blunt. I don’t like being mean.
“Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth”.
Is this who you want to be?
I’m sure.
They’re not conspiracies in that sense, unless you mean criminal conspiracy against the United States.
It’s actually the bigger picture here. I’m sure we can at least agree, many Americans, nay, many HUMANS are dead now because of foreign influence in the health care systems of Western democracies and democratic republics. This is Putin’s long term goal. Never forget, the invasion of Ukraine and COVID19 overlapped in time (this is called temporal locality).
Imagine that, the largest land grab since World War II, coincides with a global pandemic that kills about 140 times the number of US citizens as US soldiers lost in Vietnam, 20 times the US soldiers lost in WWII, and 10 times the number of US soldiers lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan over the last 20 years. When we go back and look at mass casualties over the last 100 years, nothing even comes close to COVID. 9/11 is like a speck compared to it.
And again that’s just counting DEATH, vs long term injury. Every single person who got a significant infection faces long-term, life changing bodily harm. Whether they know it now or not. Again, straight from the medical files.
I posted the old data on purpose. And the scaremongering going on has overwhelmingly been on the side of the anti-vaxxination and anti-science conservative crowd.
Who’s silencing debate? Like I said, CDC/WHO guidelines are clear, and based on the overwhelming amount of data collected from 2020-now.
Let’s be honest, you can’t debate with the anti-vaxxer crowd. And I’m still not sure where you fall.
I’m starting to believe you don’t subscribe to any of that crap but let’s face it…you posted PATRIOT CLIPS.
You’re welcome. I know quite a bit about the topic, I’ve been combating foreign disinformation campaigns for 20 years. I can bore you for days with operational details. In fact, there are many older archived threads where we already discussed this.
What’s worse in your opinion: a public health care system pushed to the brink by a novel virus, or Vladimir Putin using the entire event to gin up organic and astroturf movements to impede what the US and free world medical communities all agree on? All while he expands the Russian Empire 2.0.
Seriously, there is practically universal consensus on the efficacy of the COVID vaccines, and how many lives were saved and long term medical injuries avoided, especially in young people. Because make no mistake, young people benefited from the vaccine when they caught a large COVID viral load.
This forum can’t be killed with convential weapons, dude.
I’ve terminated hundreds of trolls here, too. Often through attrition. I’m sorry if you find it annoying but the truth does get teased out over time…
Again, why are you claiming authority over the CDC/WHO? And it’s mRNA, little m. Their guidance is crystal clear. You can feel free to debate and disagree but you have a very long road ahead of you, claiming the the agencies responsible for containing and mitigating disease are wrong, or somehow not using an empirical, data-driven strategy.
If you really want to narrow down, the whole purpose of this thread was determining whether or not the data supports vaccinating kids regularly against COVID, to prevent a new pandemic or clean up from the last one. So ultimately I am just playing Devil’s Advocate for actual medical authorities, who have been under assault by idiots like this:
https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/2021/09/03/trump-vaccine-booster-shot-reiner-ebof-vpx.cnn
So just remember as you sit there and write about epidemiology crisis management. You seem to disagree more with how things were handled, vs, vaccine efficacy. I don’t disagree with more study needed either, but let’s be careful with that: there are already millions of believe the vaccines contained Bill Gates microchips and Satanic lizard DNA.
It’s ok to be mean with me. I can take it.
I’m harmless.
For those that are still interested, figured i’d just post new stuff as i see it.
I didn’t want to get into that part, they were in many cases the last to know.
I’ll just leave this little comment out of the first article i found
“Dr. Rochelle Walensky surprised many in public health circles last month by announcing her departure after two years and five months — one of the shortest tenures for a CDC director in recent decades. She resigned as the pandemic’s national public health emergency was winding down.”
In a nutshell they are broken and did a shit job.
The Telegraph is a biased conservative source.
BMJ is an open access peer reviewed journal. Fine, but this meta study doesn’t really say anything to suggest the title of the Telegraph article.
Medicalxpress.com? Stop.
A connection between the COVID vaccinations and mortality rates? Not according to any national or global medical authorities.
Before you go off on this mad tangent, let’s see how many people you think died from a vaccine in the last 5 years.
I know what they say, it links into excess deaths.
It’s supporting the notion more investigation is required.
They may be unrelated.
One to watch if they unfold, if they ever do any investigations.
“the year in which both containment measures and COVID-19 vaccines were used to address virus spread and infection, the highest number of excess deaths was reported: 1 256 942 excess deaths (P-score 13.8%). In 2022, when most containment measures were lifted and COVID-19 vaccines were continued, preliminary data present 808 392 excess deaths (P-score 8.8%).”
I mean that doesn’t sit well … but nobody is even really talking about excess deaths … that should also be alarming, this has been discussed since last year. It’s just taking time to filter through, but there is a big problem somewhere and the literature on it has been out for a while.
The problem though is that the BMJ study doesn’t suggest " Covid vaccines may have helped fuel rise in excess deaths", at all. That’s open ended speculation from the Telegraph based on the fact that there are always a (very very small) number of people who experience serious side effects. That’s a political spin on the actual study, something we’ve seen over and over again. And “further investigation is needed” is boilerplate for all of these studies. Of course. But you have to factor in the fact that there is a global gossip mill suggesting every odd death was actually from a vaccine. Celebrities, athletes, kids.
The link between COVID illness, excess death, mortality rates, and the average life expectancy is pretty clear. What this study suggests is that the pandemic is not really over, in the sense that people are still dying at a statistically significant rate above and beyond pre-pandemic rates. Not because of currently being infected, but from damage caused by it (especially in the elderly crowd). And obviously COVID did get somewhat milder over time, which explains why things improved…but hundreds of millions still got infected with the worst variants early on (and a lot of them didn’t vaccinate because of the shitty cable news or websites they are addicted to).
But these things get picked up and then utilized to dismiss vaccination in general by biased news sources, just like the “see? masks don’t work!” shit Fox News tried to pull in February after the Cochrane study (after which several authors had to come forward and say “no guys masks work in general, but we’re not sure about COVID”).
Because let’s face it: tens of millions of people refused to wear masks (which are proven effective when worn correctly and in the right context). So those people probably fucked everyone else.
The Cochrane study, which is still being parroted by the Telegraph, Fox, Breitbart, etc. DOES NOT say that PPE is ineffective at mitigating disease. OF course they are effective…but these sites are looking for anything that will help them push their “the doctors are wrong!” agenda. They want to convince their audience that all their unsubstantiated rage is legit. On any issue, but especially one that sells papers.
^^^ another dumb ass Fox headline
Never forget that anti-vaccination is a movement, largely pushed by conservative media, fueled by foreign influence in Western news media, and particularly places like Fox and Newsmax which are basically outlets for Russia Today.
Now, we have measles again because people think vaccines are bad. COVID was worse for the same reason.
Excess deaths 3 years in? Easily explained, like I said, without blaming any side effects of any vaccine… People are dying TODAY, from COVID infections they got years ago. It causes permanent lung damage, cardiovascular problems, and a whole range of long-term complications.
Which is why it’s important to stop focusing solely on death certificates. There are probably about a billion people out there with post-COVID health symptoms that would explain why the mortality rates didn’t just drop suddenly because of vaccines, lockdowns, or masks.
Unfortunately, compliance with these things is abysmal compared to the ideal situation where people actually follow their doctors’ advice and not Youtube or Tucker Carlson or anybody who uses to term “jab” like it’s a poison.
Fucking Jenny McCarthy started it, Joe Rogan made it worse. Vaccines and autism, dude. This is the dumbest shit ever and that all started before the pandemic. And Putin is laughing into his next term because in Russia, you don’t get a fucking choice.
And I’ll bring DMX up again since he was used as a poster child for “the vaccine kills people”.
This is the bullshit that actually does and is still, killing people. Certain people are more afraid of medicine now, than the virus. These are people who get their information from scam artists milking clickbait.
Remember when we found DMX’s bio on the fake COVID Vaccine Memorial site? That site takes donations. Those donations are then being used for spreading more gossip/bullshit news about medicine.
Real news:
Bullshit:
I think the telegraph paper was referencing this:
“Simultaneous onset of excess mortality and COVID-19 vaccination in Germany provides a safety signal warranting further investigation”
Which is in the paper i linked.
There are definitely other factors that could contribute, economic, late diagnosis, etc.
What should be fairly clear by now is nobody really knows and scientists are raising more concerns and a clear need for deeper analysis is required. The truth is at this point all bets are off. I’m particularly interested in the long term studies linked to cancer, sexual reproduction, immune system and neurological.
It warrants study. The reason research is so slow is because vaccination became a religious war.
Masks is a slippery slope, not all masks are equal, not all viruses are the same size, your eyes are two giant mucus membranes through which you can get infected. Depending on density of the fabric you can limit spread. You also need to follow proper protocol if you don’t want to impact your health negatively. But once again that’s also a religious debate, but it’s lame.
