Data driven approach to COVID19 vaccination for kids, and adults

General BS
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Vaccinating children for COVID19 in areas that do not have hospital systems that are either currently overwhelmed,
nor have strong momentum to about to be overwhelmed,
seems unnecessary, by the data.
Almost none of the COVID19 deaths are in the juvenile population.
The only reason to vaccinate children for COVID19 would be to lower their windows as carriers.
If their adult teachers, parents, etc are vaccinated or have post infection antibodies,
vaccinating children at this point seems not only unnecessary,
but jabbing them just to jab them.
Likewise, in the absence of hospital systems presenting as overwhelmed,
continued adult booster vaccinations for COVID19 are and should be regarded as purely optional, for non-compromised adults, much like a flu shot,
unless hospital systems start presenting again as being overwhelmed,
or fatality rates present as rising with momentum,
or other supply chain crises present,

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Only vaccinate children against disease when there is pandemic of that disease

Gotcha

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That is not what I said, of course.
Your continued practice of attempting to put words in other’s mouth’s makes the world a stupider place.

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You’re going to get the jab whether you like it or not. You’re going to get the jab whether it’s effective or not. Your children are going to get the jab whether they need it or not. And you’re going to get all the boosters. And when they develop cardiac conditions you will get no refunds.

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Are you against all vaccinations or just ones for COVID?

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@BrevardFighter has not said that he is against vaccines, at least not in this thread.
Can you point to a post that he made saying that he was,
given your post is otherwise a “do you still beat your wife” style loaded question?

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No it wasn’t a loaded question

From your frame of reference it was I guess, probably because there is nothing wrong with vaccinations.

They are a safe, preventative measure against viruses spreading among populations.

So it can be implied by his response he is against the COVID vaccinations.

As was asking if he was against vaccinations for other viruses as well.

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No. I am for mandatory vaccinations, whether the vaccines end up effective or not and regardless of vaccine injury. And when someone is vaccine injured I am for making them shut up because it’s bad for messaging.

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Is this some kind dumb thing where you say you’re in agreement with something you don’t actually like, because you lack the spine to clearly state your opinion?

@Dr.Gonzo that’s a loaded question.

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Absolutely not. I am for mandatory vaccination. No exceptions. And if side effects are experienced, well no one forced you.

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How would you mandate the vaccinations? Or what kinds of mandates are you in favour of?

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You should not be allowed to work, travel, own a home, rent a home, go to a hospital, or go into a grocery store without a vaccination. And when you experience side effects, well no one forced you chud.

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Lol you’re some kind of special

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A serious post, at this point even the “experts” are all over the place on the MRNA vaccination success and possible long term side effects beyond individual vaccine injuries e.g. EMA saying that too many boosters may actually have a detrimental effect on immune response, constant flip flopping on things like masks etc.
My primary issue is that it is coercion and no one involved understands that there is coercion going on. People in general have a difficult time understanding when they are the ones engaging in coercion if they assume they are a rational actor and anyone who disagrees cannot be a rational actor.
But this comes back to discussion in the other thread about the Friend Enemy Distinction. When you do it to an Enemy, it isn’t coercion from your POV because coercion is bad. You’re “creating incentives”.

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You see through a fucked up lense.

Also look up what coercion means. Then you can tell me how you were coerced into getting one.

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Ok

the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.

Then you can tell me how you were coerced into getting one.

There are many who were told to get the jab or they would lose their job, for example. And that was even before the attempt at a Federal mandate, and that’s only discussing the US. That is definitionally coercion. You can’t get around that and it’s better to just own it.

And then we can talk about what provaxx people said they wanted. Which was unironically what I shitposted above.

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Are all laws a form of coercion to you then?

You can’t murder, rape or steal without running fowl of various laws. As extreme cases

There were also all kinds of jobs that required various vaccinations before you heard the word COVID rattle around in your empty head.

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Yes. We recognize that they are though e.g. if you do not pay your property taxes the state may use the threat of force, and if you resist then force, to take your real property from you.

You can’t murder, rape or steal without running fowl of various laws.

Yes. And it is the threat of force from the state that undergirds those laws. If there was no threat of force then what use would the law be?

There were also all kinds of jobs that required various vaccinations before you heard the word COVID rattle around in your empty head.

And that was coercive still.

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Be more specific.
Are there some studies that you post, that you would like to have us look for that claim?

Occasionally people die from the COVID19 vaccines.
But many more people die from COVID19, and it seems to be the same Venn Diagram intersection.
Meaning, that is the COVID19 vaccines cause you harm, an actual COVID19 infection would likely have caused those people the same harm with much greater frequency of severity.
Likewise, for that matter, many people die from Tylenol.
And others from peanuts.
So details and specifics really matter, when we discuss these issues.

Now, to your point, even given what I just said, if an adult is forced to get a COVID19 vaccine against their will, without their consent, and they have a reaction, and die from it, that is murder.
Likewise, making someone get a vaccine, or any invasive therapy against their will, is little different than rape.

Sometimes those evils, are simply reckless evils, and sometimes they can serve the greater good.

But, history has taught us that we had better be careful about our “its for the greater good” arguments, because some of man’s worst and greatest evils have been committed with that argument, especially by governments, nation states, and dictators.

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I got my two teen age children double vaxxed for COVID19 during the time period when our local and State hospital system was nearing the limits of being able to be further reinforced regarding ICU capacity, by making additional and emergency ICU facilities. And the national medical supply chain was fully strained.

Without those signals, I would not have gotten my children vaccinated against COVID19, given the extremely, extremely low fatality and adverse post infection numbers regarding children.

And given those signals do not exist presently, nor are there momentum signals in that direction, I have no intention of getting my children further vaxxed against COVID19, unless new data presents, or those signals occur.

Also, the U.S. has been rather unscientific regarding refusing to recognize post infection antibodies as a form of protection, that if shown to be present, should be regarded as a surrogate for vaccine like protection.

Which is very ironic, because vaccines are a surrogate for post infection resistance, historically.

But, we had an awful lot of politics surrounding this pandemic, and how it was handled.

Rather than science, on when masks are appropriate, and when they are silly, vaccines, and other therapeutics.

And neither the Democrats nor the Republicans conducted themselves very well, nor very scientifically, regarding this issue.