President Donald Trump announced Tuesday that he has recommended that “bump stocks” — devices that let semi-automatic weapons fire hundreds of rounds per minute — be banned.
Trump signed a memorandum recommending that Attorney General Jeff Sessions propose regulations that would declare that bump stocks are illegal because they effectively turn legal semi-automatic weapons into outlawed machine guns.
Bump stocks are good for pumping a high level of shots in a short time. At a huge loss of accuracy. As a strong 2nd Amendment advocate, get rid of them. Watch your ass though and let this not be the start of another slippery slope.
[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2968794]Bump stocks are good for pumping a high level of shots in a short time. At a huge loss of accuracy. As a strong 2nd Amendment advocate, get rid of them. Watch your ass though and let this not be the start of another slippery slope.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it’s an easy sacrificial lamb… as long as it’s the only sacrifice, I’m at peace with it. Don’t agree (and am on public record dissenting), since ATF has multiple times after much consideration ruled that bump stocks are legal, but “something’s gotta be done, think of the children,” and all that noise.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2968824]I laugh at your “in play”. The only reason this happened was more kids died, tovarish.
You can’t win the kids vs. AR-15 war, so you better get them while they’re hot.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, more kids will die “tomorrow.” The timing was unfortunate, but the bump-stock ban was a foregone conclusion. If I was Trump, I would definitely use that to my political advantage, which is exactly what he is doing. We are the few that can see through the charade, but to say he did this purely because of Parkland is disingenuous.
The whole reason I posted that thread about the ATF commentary period was because it was pretty clear that POTUS was trying to sneak in a ban on bump stocks. At least he is open about it now. Fromt I have read on teh interwebz, the far right is generally decrying this as fake news, even though he literally said it.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. The general language of the proposed rule change suggests that BATFE is going to be given the green light to try to regulate how quickly semi automatic firearms can fire. More concerning, bump stocks aren’t really a sophisticated mechanism. Bump firing is a technique that anyone can do. Allowing the government to regulate misuse that isn’t otherwise illegal is a bad idea. Sure it will be nigh unenforceable, but it is going to have a lot of annoying long term “unintended” effects. For instance: Maryland has a handgun review board that was established outside of legislative scrutiny. All handguns not submitted for consideration are automatically illegal. They only meet roughly quarterly, and they are not really subject to any oversight or review. So every time a firearm model is updated enough that it results in a new SKU or new model number, you get to resubmit. For safety. Also they don’t clearly define criteria for what makes a handgun acceptable, other than it can’t be a copy of a banned firearm. Or too cheap.
Fun learning opportunity: research the consequences of the ATF’s arbitrary ban on the importation of “machine gun” parts. For safety.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, no matter how stupid bump stocks are. I don’t think this is a binary situation: I don’t want government by fiat or a bunch of dead kids. I’m pretty sure we can be doing effective things to combat both.
I could tomorrow turn any weapon firing from an open faced bolt into a fully automatic weapon. Bad people gonna be bad.
Bans on the AR-15 and it’s ilk are not the solution. There is no easy solution.[/QUOTE]
The problem with finding solutions is that continually saying what the solution is not, is the opposite of trying to find a solution, and we are in a stasis of do-nothing going on quite a while now.
The solution is pretty simple to me, the gun culture in America doesn’t give a rats ass about the problem and they need to start actually working on something other than “that won’t work”.
Right this minute they’re too busy sharing False Flag memes trying to get picked up on Donnie Trump Jr’s retweet. They did this after Sandy Hook. They did it after Vegas. Enough is enough, you’re either for protecting kids from mass murder or you’re just concerned about your toys.
[QUOTE=submessenger;2968825]Unfortunately, more kids will die “tomorrow.” The timing was unfortunate, but the bump-stock ban was a foregone conclusion. If I was Trump, I would definitely use that to my political advantage, which is exactly what he is doing. We are the few that can see through the charade, but to say he did this purely because of Parkland is disingenuous.[/QUOTE]
Foregone conclusion or not, it is suddenly back in the news because of Parkland.
Trump likely forgot about Vegas and bump stocks entirely. We’re not dealing with a POTUS with good long-term memory. He’s too wrapped up in his scandals. So I believe he did do it purely because of Parkland. He’s done everything to avoid this particular issue because nothing would erode his base more.
Yep, I think he’s desperate for Democratic votes and this is his next chance, but he needed another big tragedy to bring it back into his personal spotlight. Remember, #winning is more important than #governing.
I fully expect the laws to be swiftly and poorly written, too, because that’s the Congressional age we are living in. Get it in ASAP before the next party can tear it down.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2968853]The problem with finding solutions is that continually saying what the solution is not, is the opposite of trying to find a solution, and we are in a stasis of do-nothing going on quite a while now.
The solution is pretty simple to me, the gun culture in America doesn’t give a rats ass about the problem and they need to start actually working on something other than “that won’t work”.
Right this minute they’re too busy sharing False Flag memes trying to get picked up on Donnie Trump Jr’s retweet. They did this after Sandy Hook. They did it after Vegas. Enough is enough, you’re either for protecting kids from mass murder or you’re just concerned about your toys.[/QUOTE]
There is that old Life/Employee/Business strategy of “not complaining unless you have a solution”. Owners, wives, husbands and managers don’t wanna hear anyone complain, they want solutions that work not whining and complaining about how things don’t work or why things won’t work.
[QUOTE=DCS;2968856]Freedom is not free. A bunch of dead kids every other day is the price you pay for it.[/QUOTE]
I wonder how that narrative would change if people started shooting up NRA rallies and GOP events. One lunatic with a long rifle shot up the GOP ballgame and the right wing used that one incident to smear their opponents on these issues, as expected.
One has to wonder if they’d take the issue more seriously if it was GOP voters were dying left and right from random gun violence. AS long as its kids under 18 that their moderate voices can dismiss as emotional and their extreme voices can smear as actors/plants/FBI/agents/aliens, the GOP will remain useless on addressing any aspect of the issue. At least the Democrats keep meeting with the victims and their families.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2968931]I wonder how that narrative would change if people started shooting up NRA rallies and GOP events. One lunatic with a long rifle shot up the GOP ballgame and the right wing used that one incident to smear their opponents on these issues, as expected.
One has to wonder if they’d take the issue more seriously if it was GOP voters were dying left and right from random gun violence. AS long as its kids under 18 that their moderate voices can dismiss as emotional and their extreme voices can smear as actors/plants/FBI/agents/aliens, the GOP will remain useless on addressing any aspect of the issue. At least the Democrats keep meeting with the victims and their families.[/QUOTE]How about that time a crazy asshole shot up a country music concert in Las Vegas? Or were those victims 100% Democrats too, which is apparently what you’re saying kids are. Look man, I am pretty tolerant of you posting in The Armory given your bizzaroland worldview, but you’re pushing the limits of my patience. You are getting perilously close to a timeout.
[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2968931]I wonder how that narrative would change if people started shooting up NRA rallies and GOP events. One lunatic with a long rifle shot up the GOP ballgame and the right wing used that one incident to smear their opponents on these issues, as expected.
One has to wonder if they’d take the issue more seriously if it was GOP voters were dying left and right from random gun violence. AS long as its kids under 18 that their moderate voices can dismiss as emotional and their extreme voices can smear as actors/plants/FBI/agents/aliens, the GOP will remain useless on addressing any aspect of the issue. At least the Democrats keep meeting with the victims and their families.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cassius;2969033]How about that time a crazy asshole shot up a country music concert in Las Vegas? Or were those victims 100% Democrats too, which is apparently what you’re saying kids are. [/QUOTE]
What I said was that the GOP has been next to useless on anything related to school shootings for years, and this thread is a good example of why, the conversation shifts to they want your guns. While it may seem reasoned here, from here it feeds back to conspiracy theorists. They point to smarter, wiser people with guns (you) as their allies, and that’s why nothing gets done.
The kids will definitely end up being future Democrats if the GOP doesn’t start doing things to protect them in schools, and if that’s what you want, keep your focus on the guns rules. Then when all these kids turn 18 they will vote the GOP out of existence by the millions as the traditional old GOP voters die off and get replaced with Alt-Right fanatics spreading those same gun conspiracy theories I just mentioned.
Defending gun ownership in response to school massacres (assuming you’re NOT a fanatic) is a losing political strategy, and as a 2A supporter you should agree or else you cede your moral high ground, regardless of argument merit, to your least favorite adversary: Anti-2A politicians (note I didn’t say the Democratic party, which owns plenty of guns).
Also worth pointing out is that the GOP didn’t really do shit after Vegas, either. It’s gotten really hard to believe they care about Republican OR Democrat or any other massacre victims (dead voters); they care more about NRA contributions and scraping together whatever votes they can. Anything related to mass shootings has been political plague to the GOP, but of course Trump would be the one to break rank, having served Democratic causes including gun control for decades.
Don’t paint this tragedy with partisanship.[/QUOTE]
You know I’m not a Democrat, and it’s not partisanship to point out the GOP has done nothing in response to school shootings, other than to call action to its vast network of news deniers, NRA shills, and gun defense propaganda.
In fact, it’s your own partisanship that would deny it exists. The Democrats have been siding with the families of all these shootings for years, and the GOP hasn’t done squat until Vegas AND Parkland.
If Trump actually cared about this issue between Vegas and Parkland, then why did he not just ban bump stocks with one of his EOs? Nope, he didn’t want to miss the opportunity to get you and Cassius and everybody all fired up one more time.