Trump is coming for your guns !

Martial Arts Training Forums The Armory: Weapons, Military, LEO, and Self Defen
21

[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2969062]You know I’m not a Democrat, and it’s not partisanship to point out the GOP has done nothing in response to school shootings, other than to call action to its vast network of news deniers, NRA shills, and gun defense propaganda.

In fact, it’s your own partisanship that would deny it exists. The Democrats have been siding with the families of all these shootings for years, and the GOP hasn’t done squat until Vegas AND Parkland.

If Trump actually cared about this issue between Vegas and Parkland, then why did he not just ban bump stocks with one of his EOs? Nope, he didn’t want to miss the opportunity to get you and Cassius and everybody all fired up one more time.[/QUOTE]

My partisanship? I’m hardly fired up. The system as it is fouled up in this case. There were plenty of indicators. How about pointing a finger at those who dropped the ball? Leave my voting record out of it.

22

[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2969065]My partisanship? I’m hardly fired up. The system as it is fouled up in this case. There were plenty of indicators. How about pointing a finger at those who dropped the ball? Leave my voting record out of it.[/QUOTE]

Your knee jerk reaction was to claim that I was making the tragedy a partisan issue, when in fact I am merely siding with the victims and calling people out (a non-partisan act unless you ask Alex Jones or Laura Loomer etc I am a Democrat sleeper cell who hates guns).

This thread was about Donald Trump’s memo, which like most of his short messages takes advantage of political tragedy at just the wrong time.

I was in all the thread discussions about bump stocks after Vegas. I know how the rule-making process works. What floored me was the latency, considering the importance, of moving forward on a relatively simple issue, and even still, the legislative process is turning out hasty and flawed, not because it’s a bad idea but because the GOP (who is largely the party crafting regulations at least until the midterm elections) is bad at this in general. They don’t know what to do, and it shows.

Given the huge range of semi-important issues that have been addressed since Vegas that could have waited…the delay in this memo, and the fact that it does nothing to address most mass shootings while trying to capitalize on it, should be a big concern for any 2A supporter that wants to actually retain their rights.

If you’re really concerned about keeping your lawful firearms, it’s time to start working across the aisle and educating the anti-gun crowd, because right now they are growing because of the gun culture’s propaganda problem (which is of course satirized in the thread title).

You should read all of this in the tone of a moderate-right conservative who supports 2A rights, who is sick and tired of being used as a pawn.

23

There is rot in our society. At the risk of playing the old man card;

We had long guns in the racks of our pickup trucks. In the school parking lot. Knives in our pockets. I’m sure there were incidents nation wide, none I saw or remember reported. Never saw anyone pull a knife. These were hardly smallville schools. Largest in the state.

So, what has changed beyond the capacity and rate of fire?

What’s being vilified here is a particular type of high capacity rapid shooting firearm. What is not getting equal time is the mindset of the perpetrators. Why? Where did it all go wrong? Where did it start? Why?

WRabbit, looking at you and your ilk. Don’t pretend to know my heart. Nor the many millions like me. You want to have constructive dialogue on the matter? Good.

No? Shut your partisan whore mouth.

This is a tragedy. Sadly, another on an increasingly long list. What is the answer? Is there one?

In my heart of hearts, confiscation is not the answer.

24

The thread is about the Trump bump stock memo, not the AR-15, and I want to know why it’s so late and definitely going to be ineffective at solving the problem Trump’s memo is timed to correspond with (a mass school shooting), because I can remember exactly one massacre where bump stocks actually factored in and it was 5 months ago… Maybe there’s another you could point me to, but let’s not kid ourselves, you don’t need an automatic or semi-auto bump to blow away schoolkids, you just need a really slow to respond Congress and President.

Therefore, to keep the thread acutely on subject, we should take a closer look at the memo I have been discussing, since it ties right back to online discussions about FUD regarding gun bans. Where are Trump’s memos about schools. Answer: the gun culture in the US (of which I am a proud part) has a sort of internal rot of its own, and sorry if I’ve been awash in the dark side of it for the last 30 hours, but it’s a real dark side, and it’s on our side (the 2A supporter) side. That needs to be part of the conversation, or like I keep trying to point out…your future will be in the hands of freshly minted 18 year old Democrats with no respect for guns.

So, the hypocrisy of a Trump memo popping up saying “hey it’s time to ban bump stocks” is like a slap in the face. They’ll do that, but then when the NRA pushes back on age restrictions and background checks, we’ll be back to waiting for the next massacre. Sooner or later, the conversations that pop up during these events have to stop being “how do we keep our guns” to “how do we stop the threats as early and often as possible”. Until then, you’re having this argument and the other side is having it’s argument and nobody finds common ground.

[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2969068]There is rot in our society. At the risk of playing the old man card;

We had long guns in the racks of our pickup trucks. In the school parking lot. Knives in our pockets. I’m sure there were incidents nation wide, none I saw or remember reported. Never saw anyone pull a knife. These were hardly smallville schools. Largest in the state.

What’s being vilified here is a particular type of high capacity rapid shooting firearm. What is not getting equal time is the mindset of the perpetrators. Why? Where did it all go wrong? Where did it start? Why?
[/QUOTE]

THE WHITE HOUSE

Office of the Press Secretary

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

February 20, 2018

February 20, 2018

MEMORANDUM FOR THE ATTORNEY GENERAL

SUBJECT: Application of the Definition of Machinegun to “Bump Fire” Stocks and Other Similar Devices

After the deadly mass murder in Las Vegas, Nevada, on October 1, 2017, I asked my Administration to fully review how the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives regulates bump fire stocks and similar devices.

Although the Obama Administration repeatedly concluded that particular bump stock type devices were lawful to purchase and possess, I sought further clarification of the law restricting fully automatic machineguns.

Accordingly, following established legal protocols, the Department of Justice started the process of promulgating a Federal regulation interpreting the definition of “machinegun” under Federal law to clarify whether certain bump stock type devices should be illegal. The Advanced Notice of Proposed Rulemaking was published in the “Federal Register” on December 26, 2017. Public comment concluded on January 25, 2018, with the Department of Justice receiving over 100,000 comments.

Today, I am directing the Department of Justice to dedicate all available resources to complete the review of the comments received, and, as expeditiously as possible, to propose for notice and comment a rule banning all devices that turn legal weapons into machineguns.

Although I desire swift and decisive action, I remain committed to the rule of law and to the procedures the law prescribes. Doing this the right way will ensure that the resulting regulation is workable and effective and leaves no loopholes for criminals to exploit. I would ask that you keep me regularly apprised of your progress.

You are authorized and directed to publish this memorandum in the “Federal Register”.

DONALD J. TRUMP

25

[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2969067]Your knee jerk reaction was to claim that I was making the tragedy a partisan issue, when in fact I am merely siding with the victims and calling people out (a non-partisan act unless you ask Alex Jones or Laura Loomer etc I am a Democrat sleeper cell who hates guns).

This thread was about Donald Trump’s memo, which like most of his short messages takes advantage of political tragedy at just the wrong time.

I was in all the thread discussions about bump stocks after Vegas. I know how the rule-making process works. What floored me was the latency, considering the importance, of moving forward on a relatively simple issue, and even still, the legislative process is turning out hasty and flawed, not because it’s a bad idea but because the GOP (who is largely the party crafting regulations at least until the midterm elections) is bad at this in general. They don’t know what to do, and it shows.

Given the huge range of semi-important issues that have been addressed since Vegas that could have waited…the delay in this memo, and the fact that it does nothing to address most mass shootings while trying to capitalize on it, should be a big concern for any 2A supporter that wants to actually retain their rights.

If you’re really concerned about keeping your lawful firearms, it’s time to start working across the aisle and educating the anti-gun crowd, because right now they are growing because of the gun culture’s propaganda problem (which is of course satirized in the thread title).

You should read all of this in the tone of a moderate-right conservative who supports 2A rights, who is sick and tired of being used as a pawn.[/QUOTE]

Mother fucking redirect. So I won another $1,000. This site needs to block this shit.

In short, what would you do?

FUCK

Nice response elaborated to be hijacked again. FUCK

26

[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2969068]
In my heart of hearts, confiscation is not the answer.[/QUOTE]

I agree, as always. MY whole point in this thread has consistently been that this Trump memo on bump stocks bullshit is another distraction, one that will actually wear out the 2A crowd and unfortunately cause them to also tune out some of message coming from the victims in FL (who were turned away from state senators in Tallahassee, no less, after traveling more than 100 miles to speak with many of them).

The 2A crowd and the victims have a chance to come together here, like they always do, but something is very, very wrong with the signals coming out of the 2A community. Why? All my gun enthusiast friends are losing their mind online right now, like they’re zombies. I can’t even reason with most of them, all believe some form of bullshit and won’t be dissuaded. So I come here…

As much as we laugh about what Alex Jones and his ilk have been spewing today, is IS infesting the ears of honest 2A supporters and making them believe that Trump’s bump stock memo is part of a larger conspiracy, which isn’t funny to me at all, because of what it implies down the road.

All we need now is another Timothy McVeigh or god forbid, a lot of copycats who believes the government is the enemy, and that is exactly the problem with the 2A crowd right now, and you and everyone here can either try to dispel that illusion or feed into it.

That’s not partisan, that’s reason. AT this point, it’s time to stop looking at the victims as adversaries who want to take away your guns. They are dying and asking for help and Congressional inaction and Trump’s memos not only don’t cut it, they further enflame the issue especially in places like BS where we’d like to have nice things, but instead of talking about the fun parts of gun ownership, we have to worry about things like memos and broad bans and confiscation fears because the government is too paralyzed to do anything else, and the 2A media is poisoned at the well.

27

[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2969070]The thread is about the Trump bump stock memo, not the AR-15, and I want to know why it’s so late and definitely going to be ineffective at solving the problem Trump’s memo is timed to correspond with (a mass school shooting), because I can remember exactly one massacre where bump stocks actually factored in and it was 5 months ago… Maybe there’s another you could point me to, but let’s not kid ourselves, you don’t need an automatic or semi-auto bump to blow away schoolkids, you just need a really slow to respond Congress and President.

Therefore, to keep the thread acutely on subject, we should take a closer look at the memo I have been discussing, since it ties right back to online discussions about FUD regarding gun bans. Where are Trump’s memos about schools. Answer: the gun culture in the US (of which I am a proud part) has a sort of internal rot of its own, and sorry if I’ve been awash in the dark side of it for the last 30 hours, but it’s a real dark side, and it’s on our side (the 2A supporter) side. That needs to be part of the conversation, or like I keep trying to point out…your future will be in the hands of freshly minted 18 year old Democrats with no respect for guns.

So, the hypocrisy of a Trump memo popping up saying “hey it’s time to ban bump stocks” is like a slap in the face. They’ll do that, but then when the NRA pushes back on age restrictions and background checks, we’ll be back to waiting for the next massacre. Sooner or later, the conversations that pop up during these events have to stop being “how do we keep our guns” to “how do we stop the threats as early and often as possible”. Until then, you’re having this argument and the other side is having it’s argument and nobody finds common ground.[/QUOTE]

5 months is pretty remarkable turnaround, I would say. Tragedy, proposed rule making, comment period, and coincidental school shooting. Yes, I believe that Trump took advantage of the timing to gain political capital, but the process was not Trump deciding the day of Parkland to disallow bump stocks. Could he have done an earlier PR? Sure. Was he “waiting,” for Parkland? Get fucked. You’re going to deny it, but I know that you know in your heart of hearts that Trump was not waiting for kids to die to post this memo. It became politically expedient for him to do so. People would have been lambasting him for not taking action, had Parkland NOT happened. This isn’t something he was saving for the right tragedy; it’s clearly evident that the ball was in motion. Over 100,000 of my fellow citizens, corporations, and trollbots are the proof, all in the open, on public record.

28

[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2969071]Mother fucking redirect. So I won another $1,000. This site needs to block this shit.
[/quote]

I recommend Noscript, it’ll block that garbage. I never browse without it.

[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2969071]
In short, what would you do?
[/QUOTE]

In short, I’d really like to be a 2A advocate that decides to listen more to real people than to online avatars and especially Youtube personalities warning me about encroaching gun restrictions as if they are providing me life changing, potentially mind-expanding experience. Sounds crazy right? But just look at what’s happening in FL and you will see the heart of darkness that is the 2A’s biggest threat ever.

Honestly, and I can say this without lying, BS is the.only.site I can find where people can have an honest talk about 2A issues without getting too partisan. That also makes it important to get this message out here, where the (usually) reasonable people hang out.

The poisoned well of bad information targeting the gun enthusiast crowd might be a good theme to operate under we could all agree on. You can’t deny its existence, and a powerful one at that. This memo is part of it, the online web conspiracies are complicit, and even the relatively mundane conversation we’ve been having is part of it.

We should not have to be talking about banning bump stocks at all…it might sound bizzaro but it’s sincere. We’re only having this talk because shit is fucked up and it’s way bigger than this memo. This is why gun nubiles call us “tone deaf”…they’re calling for aid and we’re worrying about administrative issues like proper licensing and purchasing legal goods.

Maybe the next memo will direct Jeff Sessions to deconstruct the massive 2A Fake News industry that right now is attacking victim families in FL, attacked the Vegas victims, attacked the Sandy Hook victims…and on and on. Let’s stop being so tone deaf, that’s all.

I’m done. I hope my “worldview” makes a little more sense now, especially since we are all on the same side of the argument.

29

No

There is no 2nd Admendment crowd. We’re a collection of individuals. You may think differently.

There is rot in our society. More so today? I do not know.

Time and with it, values have changed. Maybe not on the overall personal level. That portrayed to the general public? I think so.

Again, I am admittedly coming into this conversation from the old fart position.

Something happened. It wasn’t merely magazine capacity and rate of fire.

Shit

A whole lot of futures unrealized. Tragic. Heartbreaking. Keep your prayers to yourself. Thoughts? Pour them out.

30

[QUOTE=submessenger;2969073]5 months is pretty remarkable turnaround, I would say. Tragedy, proposed rule making, comment period, and coincidental school shooting. Yes, I believe that Trump took advantage of the timing to gain political capital, but the process was not Trump deciding the day of Parkland to disallow bump stocks. Could he have done an earlier PR? Sure. Was he “waiting,” for Parkland? Get fucked. You’re going to deny it, but I know that you know in your heart of hearts that Trump was not waiting for kids to die to post this memo. It became politically expedient for him to do so. People would have been lambasting him for not taking action, had Parkland NOT happened. This isn’t something he was saving for the right tragedy; it’s clearly evident that the ball was in motion. Over 100,000 of my fellow citizens, corporations, and trollbots are the proof, all in the open, on public record.[/QUOTE]

It could have been 5 days. Trump has a habit of signing EOs in one day.

He wasn’t waiting for Parkland. He clearly wasn’t waiting at all. He didn’t mention it once since Vegas. It was in stasis right up until it couldn’t be any longer.

They could have extended the RFC another 5 months, but that was not an option. The GOP simply don’t have the political will to do this with full control of Congress and the WH. How could they? They largely won the seats they have by catering to this exact issue.

But again, the root issue is not the guns or banning bump stocks, right? The root issue is the 2A split is tearing this country apart and I have to side with the victims that nothing the government is doing, or has done, is solving real issues. Was bump stock automatic fire such a big issue before Vegas? See, every thing they do accomplish is knee jerk.

What they really need to do, nobody can agree on because of a media complex that has 2A supporters practically enslaved to gaslighting, drowning out most reasonable 2A supporters. Notice that BS is relatively free of gaslighting! The tone of discussions here need to expand beyond “The Armory”.

OK I’m done done. Thanks for listening.

31

I still maintain the biggest problem in our society is this acceptance of fluid alternate truths and the idea that belief and faith are the same things as fact. In other words our societies, specifically America’s societies, lack the basic moral values of honesty and integrity and have for a long while.

It is nothing new but it is getting worse, which ironically enough was my motivations for getting into and earning a deeper understanding Marketing.

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[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2969077]It could have been 5 days. Trump has a habit of signing EOs in one day.

He wasn’t waiting for Parkland. He clearly wasn’t waiting at all. He didn’t mention it once since Vegas. It was in stasis right up until it couldn’t be any longer.

They could have extended the RFC another 5 months, but that was not an option. The GOP simply don’t have the political will to do this with full control of Congress and the WH. How could they? They largely won the seats they have by catering to this exact issue.

But again, the root issue is not the guns or banning bump stocks, right? The root issue is the 2A split is tearing this country apart and I have to side with the victims that nothing the government is doing, or has done, is solving real issues. Was bump stock automatic fire such a big issue before Vegas? See, every thing they do accomplish is knee jerk.

What they really need to do, nobody can agree on because of a media complex that has 2A supporters practically enslaved to gaslighting, drowning out most reasonable 2A supporters. Notice that BS is relatively free of gaslighting! The tone of discussions here need to expand beyond “The Armory”.

OK I’m done done. Thanks for listening.[/QUOTE]

2A is tearing us apart, today. But, it wasn’t two weeks ago, or really anytime between about Thanksgiving 2017 and Parkland. Next week, it will be the stock market, or abortions, or The Wall, or Kim, or something else. Politics moves from crisis to crisis because WE move from crisis to crisis. In that respect, our “representatives,” do a pretty good job, and Trump is the president we deserve.

33

[QUOTE=submessenger;2969081]2A is tearing us apart, today. But, it wasn’t two weeks ago, or really anytime between about Thanksgiving 2017 and Parkland. Next week, it will be the stock market, or abortions, or The Wall, or Kim, or something else. Politics moves from crisis to crisis because WE move from crisis to crisis. In that respect, our “representatives,” do a pretty good job, and Trump is the president we deserve.[/QUOTE]Bingo. Trump’s conciliatory gestures (besides the vaunted bump stock ban) are literally just him buying time until the temper tantrums of the toddler that is the American public (directed by media) become about something else. Which honestly hurts to admit, given the way current POTUS acts. Particularly on social media.

Trump needs to say something rude about Venezuelan orphans on Twitter or something so that we can move on to the next outrage already.

34

I’ve got as many or more ARs than most people on this site, I would gamble. But bump stocks I give two shits about. I agree that his timing is political. I still could care less. They have been moving towards banning them, everyone knew it was going to happen. I had a few people order them and tell me that I should order them because they are about to be illegal. And I said to them, I’m not going to buy something I don’t want just because it is about to be banned.

Either way it is a sacrificial lamb that won’t do anything. I also don’t think Trump is coming for the guns. I’ve heard some of the proposals today on the radio and I’m not against most of them. But I’ll be interested to see what happens with the baker act provisions that Pam Bondi was talking about.

35

[QUOTE=BackFistMonkey;2969080]I still maintain the biggest problem in our society is this acceptance of fluid alternate truths and the idea that belief and faith are the same things as fact. In other words our societies, specifically America’s societies, lack the basic moral values of honesty and integrity and have for a long while.

It is nothing new but it is getting worse, which ironically enough was my motivations for getting into and earning a deeper understanding Marketing.[/QUOTE]

Or to put it another way: “It ain’t so much what folks don’t know, it’s all the things they know that just ain’t so.”

Artemus Ward and Josh Billings both said that long before me and you, but I think the sentiment applies all the same.

36

[QUOTE=W. Rabbit;2968824]I laugh at your “in play”. The only reason this happened was more kids died, tovarish.

You can’t win the kids vs. AR-15 war, so you better get them while they’re hot.[/QUOTE]Really? Sandy Hook happened in 2012, this happened in 2018 and the Limited Ban was not renewed. So, we will see. Oh and you used the incorrect word, you mean battle. To win the “war” we need to become like the UK, Japan or Canada and I do not see that happening in my lifetime.

37

Yep, I’m going there…

//youtu.be/7RdAhTxyP64

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[QUOTE=It is Fake;2969190]Really? Sandy Hook happened in 2012, this happened in 2018 and the Limited Ban was not renewed. So, we will see. Oh and you used the incorrect word, you mean battle. To win the “war” we need to become like the UK, Japan or Canada and I do not see that happening in my lifetime.[/QUOTE]

Yep, 6 years, nothing changed. This time it was teens instead of babes.

Battle/war/daily news. I hope it’ll happen in our lifetime. I know that is not logical. Part of it is overcoming the fear that the scare tactics have on people on both sides.

Tonight I had to correct my wife while she was lecturing my oldest. She called the AR-15 a “military weapon”. As usual, I differed.

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[QUOTE=BKR;2969228]Yep, I’m going there…

//youtu.be/7RdAhTxyP64
[/QUOTE]

I can bump a .22. In fact, I trained it to perfection against woodchucks, which are fast varmints.

40

Trump: ‘Take the guns first, go through due process second’
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/376097-trump-take-the-guns-first-go-through-due-process-second?__twitter_impression=true

"President Trump on Wednesday voiced support for confiscating guns from certain individuals deemed to be dangerous, even if it violates due process rights.

“I like taking the guns early, like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida … to go to court would have taken a long time,” Trump said at a meeting with lawmakers on school safety and gun violence.

“Take the guns first, go through due process second,” Trump said.

Seems like Trump is literally gunning to come for some peoples’ guns without due process. I thought for sure this headline would not become self fulfilling and stay in the realm of tongue in cheek.

But no.

Trump had to fuck this up too.