Ancient Chinese debating tactic: “Weak argument, shout louder…”
Just look at the size of that post!!!
So you aren’t countering any of those points, nor are you answering this:
Or any of these:
[quote=SantaDog;2298064]Then why didn’t you say that yesterday when you were on or why didn’t you quite him? Instead you waited until I posted what I did and had it right after mine a whole day after IIF posted.
We all remain interested, but it may not be “the most useful development” if Tony acts like he has when questioned by others.
Please just stop. You know that is not how you meant it. Stop making it up as you go along.
“There are six things the Lord hates, seven that are detestable to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue, …”
Care to share anything yet. You have yet to provide anything of substance. Some info would be greatly appreciated rather than attack when others shoot down your ineptness at debate and discussion.
Also, when are you going to apologize for claiming I did not read the book?[/quote]
You aren’t are you? You are full of it.
[quote=terrafirma;2298627]Ancient Chinese debating tactic: “Weak argument, shout louder…”[/quote] You know what that means right?
Just look at the size of that post!!!
Sure: 190 words MSworks: Including link.
[quote=terrafirma;2294349]Who told who what? Now I am confused. I read that there was going to be a disclaimer in the next edition of the Book. That is why I thought it rather silly of Santadog to google William Black, as it has already been admitted by Avanti that names in the Book were changed. Even without that admission I would have expected the name of William Black to be a pseudonym.
My point is that so far nothing has been proved in 60 pages. Which is why I suggested new lines of enquiry along the lines of TA’s parents (would a son who claims to be eager to “win his parents to Christ” write about his mother in such a negative way), his ethnicity, and whether or not he speaks fluent Cantonese.
Instead of following these, you are just going round in circles - and becoming more and more dizzy in the process.
Another suggestion: why not also take the debate to a Christian forum - not to take it away from Bullshido, but because any supporter of TA would be nuts to post here as he would be torn apart.
Just for the record: I am not a supporter of TA. My gut instinct when watching the Youtube clips was that he is lying. The Book, I totally agree, is fantastic, but nothing in it is impossible. You can make it “impossible” by tweaking parts of it and adding a few bits and pieces.
The fact is that millions of people apparently believe in Tony’s story. If we are going to open their eyes we will need at least one piece of solid evidence. And, for the record, I am working on it.
As I said in a previous post, I am though open-minded enough to accept the possibility that I end up with proof that TA is genuine, although my gut instinct is that he is not.
I suppose even this will lead to another barrage of heated indignation, but I can take it. Fire away…[/quote]
338 words MS works. You win. Oh wait, that means you have a weak argument. Sorry, you lose.
[quote=terrafirma;2298161]You guys are getting really sad. Sorry, I can’t help laughing, but really you are tragic. Why not calm down and grow up. Your world is very small indeed.
There are two reasons why this had been moved to Trollshido:
-
Because Its a Fake looks so ridiculous from his posts, and is afraid that the general public might see them.
-
Because this is where I wanted it.[/quote]
were you parents brother and sister for you to get this dumb or have you been taking lessons in stupidity. I seen brown stains running down the crack of George Bush’s arsehole with more brain power
i.e too busy posting vacuous nonsense in Trollshido.
Hey Terra firma if you want succint try this
“FUCK OFF”
Tony Anthony is not his real name. When you think about it, it’s pretty obvious that he would need to hide his real identity.
[QUOTE=nathan.f77;2584208]Tony Anthony is not his real name. When you think about it, it’s pretty obvious that he would need to hide his real identity.[/QUOTE]
Yes sure , change your name but have your picture and story plastered all over the world including china the place where your hiding from your family in case they attack you.
Sounds like a plan sure to conceal his secret identity.
Wow, I just went back and read most of this thread, and I have to say that you have done some amazing research. I’m sorry for my comment; I didn’t realise how much time and effort you have put into this!
I don’t know Tony Anthony personally, but I’ve read his book and have seen him speak at conferences in New Zealand. As a Christian, I want to see his testimony impact many more people and bring them to Christ. So I’ve been emailing Patrick, who is one of the producers of the ‘Taming the Tiger’ movie. I would like to be a part of the production staff if possible, so I know how important it is to resolve this discussion. If a $35,000,000 USD movie is going to be produced, this thread is going to be one of the first things a critic will find. Patrick has also admitted that cementing the story’s validity is a top priority.
As Michael Wright said, there are certain details that can’t be proven one way or the other, such as whether or not a white tiger was actually stroked.
But what would end the discussion for you? What one piece of evidence would you need? Would you agree that if a private referee were given the straight, undiluted facts and time to independently research, then their confirmation would end the discussion?
As for the point raised about not speaking Cantonese:
People can easily forget languages, even their mother tongue! If you don’t practice it, it goes out the window. If you guys have never learnt a second language, then you really have no authority to make conclusions like that.
And as for the idiot who posted that Cantonese has no written form, the Wikipedia article on Written Cantonese begs to differ.[URL=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese”]
I would like to see the end of this discussion as much as you do. But I think you should still try to be respectful with your research, because if everything IS true, then the things you reveal could be putting his life at risk.
Anyways, much respect to you, PDA.
And if the story does check out, I think it would be awesome if some guys on bullshido had kung fu roles in the movie.
[QUOTE=nathan.f77;2584272]Wow, I just went back and read most of this thread, and I have to say that you have done some amazing research. I’m sorry for my comment; I didn’t realise how much time and effort you have put into this!
I don’t know Tony Anthony personally, but I’ve read his book and have seen him speak at conferences in New Zealand. As a Christian, I want to see his testimony impact many more people and bring them to Christ. So I’ve been emailing Patrick, who is one of the producers of the ‘Taming the Tiger’ movie. I would like to be a part of the production staff if possible, so I know how important it is to resolve this discussion. If a $35,000,000 USD movie is going to be produced, this thread is going to be one of the first things a critic will find. Patrick has also admitted that cementing the story’s validity is a top priority.
As Michael Wright said, there are certain details that can’t be proven one way or the other, such as whether or not a white tiger was actually stroked.
But what would end the discussion for you? What one piece of evidence would you need? Would you agree that if a private referee were given the straight, undiluted facts and time to independently research, then their confirmation would end the discussion?
As for the point raised about not speaking Cantonese:
People can easily forget languages, even their mother tongue! If you don’t practice it, it goes out the window. If you guys have never learnt a second language, then you really have no authority to make conclusions like that.
And as for the idiot who posted that Cantonese has no written form, the Wikipedia article on Written Cantonese begs to differ.
I would like to see the end of this discussion as much as you do. But I think you should still try to be respectful with your research, because if everything IS true, then the things you reveal could be putting his life at risk.
Anyways, much respect to you, PDA.
And if the story does check out, I think it would be awesome if some guys on bullshido had kung fu roles in the movie.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for taking the time to read the thread, just as pointer , I would not reccommend using Wikipedia as a reliable source.
[QUOTE=nathan.f77;2584272]
As for the point raised about not speaking Cantonese:
People can easily forget languages, even their mother tongue! If you don’t practice it, it goes out the window. If you guys have never learnt a second language, then you really have no authority to make conclusions like that.[/QUOTE]
Oh come now, this is a bit weak. You can get a bit rusty, but to completely lose the ability to speak the language? I don’t think I’ve had a conversation in Irish in over 10 years, but if had to try now, I could at least get by.
[QUOTE=nathan.f77;2584272]Wow, I just went back and read most of this thread, and I have to say that you have done some amazing research. I’m sorry for my comment; I didn’t realise how much time and effort you have put into this!
I don’t know Tony Anthony personally, but I’ve read his book and have seen him speak at conferences in New Zealand. As a Christian, I want to see his testimony impact many more people and bring them to Christ. So I’ve been emailing Patrick, who is one of the producers of the ‘Taming the Tiger’ movie. I would like to be a part of the production staff if possible, so I know how important it is to resolve this discussion. If a $35,000,000 USD movie is going to be produced, this thread is going to be one of the first things a critic will find. Patrick has also admitted that cementing the story’s validity is a top priority.
As Michael Wright said, there are certain details that can’t be proven one way or the other, such as whether or not a white tiger was actually stroked.
But what would end the discussion for you? What one piece of evidence would you need? Would you agree that if a private referee were given the straight, undiluted facts and time to independently research, then their confirmation would end the discussion?
As for the point raised about not speaking Cantonese:
People can easily forget languages, even their mother tongue! If you don’t practice it, it goes out the window. If you guys have never learnt a second language, then you really have no authority to make conclusions like that.
And as for the idiot who posted that Cantonese has no written form, the Wikipedia article on Written Cantonese begs to differ.[URL=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese”]
I would like to see the end of this discussion as much as you do. But I think you should still try to be respectful with your research, because if everything IS true, then the things you reveal could be putting his life at risk.
Anyways, much respect to you, PDA.
And if the story does check out, I think it would be awesome if some guys on bullshido had kung fu roles in the movie.[/QUOTE]
Putting his life at risk? Really? No. Sorry, no. If the president can have a microscope put up his ass some random christian WHO CHOOSES TO BE IN THE PUBLIC EYE can withstand some scrutiny.
I do find your questions of research ironic because, you called someone an idiot while using wiki as a source.
[QUOTE=nathan.f77;2584272]Wow, I just went back and read most of this thread, and I have to say that you have done some amazing research. I’m sorry for my comment; I didn’t realise how much time and effort you have put into this!
I don’t know Tony Anthony personally, but I’ve read his book and have seen him speak at conferences in New Zealand. As a Christian, I want to see his testimony impact many more people and bring them to Christ. So I’ve been emailing Patrick, who is one of the producers of the ‘Taming the Tiger’ movie. I would like to be a part of the production staff if possible, so I know how important it is to resolve this discussion. If a $35,000,000 USD movie is going to be produced, this thread is going to be one of the first things a critic will find. Patrick has also admitted that cementing the story’s validity is a top priority.
As Michael Wright said, there are certain details that can’t be proven one way or the other, such as whether or not a white tiger was actually stroked.
But what would end the discussion for you? What one piece of evidence would you need? Would you agree that if a private referee were given the straight, undiluted facts and time to independently research, then their confirmation would end the discussion?
As for the point raised about not speaking Cantonese:
People can easily forget languages, even their mother tongue! If you don’t practice it, it goes out the window. If you guys have never learnt a second language, then you really have no authority to make conclusions like that.
And as for the idiot who posted that Cantonese has no written form, the Wikipedia article on Written Cantonese begs to differ.[URL=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese”]
I would like to see the end of this discussion as much as you do. But I think you should still try to be respectful with your research, because if everything IS true, then the things you reveal could be putting his life at risk.
Anyways, much respect to you, PDA.
And if the story does check out, I think it would be awesome if some guys on bullshido had kung fu roles in the movie.[/QUOTE]
http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/s/552_couple_lied_about_death_crash
Putting his life in danger!!!, here is his photo in the paper and he is still alive.
Also gives details that prove he lied to the police and was involved in a hit and run collision that resulted in the DEATH of a young woman most likely caused by him “ploughing through a junction”.
[QUOTE=nathan.f77;2584272]As Michael Wright said, there are certain details that can’t be proven one way or the other, such as whether or not a white tiger was actually stroked.
But what would end the discussion for you? What one piece of evidence would you need? Would you agree that if a private referee were given the straight, undiluted facts and time to independently research, then their confirmation would end the discussion?[/QUOTE]
There’s been so many discrepancies that there’s not one piece of evidence that would change it.
There’s the part where the snake kung fu part of his book is obviously plagiarized (at least one word for word paragraph; there’s no way that can be a coincidence). As I see it, there’s no piece of evidence that can refute this.
The claim of the International Kung Fu Federation (an organization without any web presence) training him to be a bodyguard after winning a bunch of tournaments. That doesn’t ring true with what I know about kung fu organizations, and I was with one for nine years. Being good at martial arts and being a bodyguard are very different skills, and this was supposed to have happened at 18? I can’t imagine an 18 year old kung fu kid without bodyguard experience handling all these high profile security jobs. What piece of evidence could prove this background is true? Many possibilities.
Lifting a hot cauldron and scarring dragons on the arms is taken directly from Kung Fu the series, and it’s not based on a real thing, and Tony doesn’t have dragon scars on his arms so its double unbelievable. What piece of proof could prove this? Maybe some decades old dragon scars, and some old previously unread Chinese scrolls that explain that what he claims is a real thing.
He said that its illegal to practice kung fu in Scandinavia. Proof that it’s a real law and that the many kung fu vids on youtube from Scandinavia are in fact evidence of crime.
Tony said that he killed terrorists who attacked the Saudi Arabian ambassador. This would’ve made the news, especially if the killing was via kung fu. This is one that there really should be available proof for.
@[B]CrackFox :
[/B]No one has proof that he has completely lost his language. He understands much more than he can speak. Besides, what if someone asked you to say something in Irish? Would you quote a poem? He chose to say a few simple greetings, which is what all of us would do even when we are fluent in a language. All of this is not evidence, it’s just speculation.
@It is Fake and @madmonkey[B][I]:
[/I][/B]I agree that scrutiny is necessary, and he does admit that even as a Christian, he’s done things he’s not proud of. I’m not saying you should stop doing research, just don’t go plastering his address all over the internet.
@Everyone criticising Wikipedia: When something is tangential to a discussion, a wikipedia article is sufficient. If it was critical, I would have found a more reliable source. I live in Hong Kong myself, where the spoken and written language is Cantonese.
I agree, the snake kung fu part of his book has been obviously taken from the internet. But that’s all on Angela Little, and no has little to no bearing on the validity of the story. She wrote the book after interviews with Tony Anthony, and maybe she found that description on the internet while doing some research. Of course she could have covered her tracks with a couple of synonyms, but the only thing this proves is writer’s block.
If I recall correctly, the IKFF did not train him to be a bodyguard. He was employed by a separate bodyguard agency to train others in hand to hand combat, and was then hired and trained in other disciplines after proving himself. Sure, it’s unbelievable that an 18-year-old could handle that, but after 14 years of full-time kung fu training, I’m pretty sure he would have been a lot harder and mature than your average teenager.
For me, the only thing I would need to confirm these experiences are a few photos. There surely must be some photographic evidence somewhere.
I thought the scars on his arms were confirmed. Didn’t @PDA himself see claw shaped scars on each forearm? It doesn’t really bother me that they aren’t shaped like a dragon, and it doesn’t bother me that the whole scene seems to be taken from a TV series. You can’t deduce that something never happened, because it did happen in a cheesy TV show. That’s not valid logic, even if the producers of the TV show say they made it up.
I mean no disrespect, since you do have nine years more experience than me in kung fu. But you must be aware that many kung fu traditions and tournaments were highly secretive in nature. Surely you don’t claim to know everything there is to know about kung fu?
I don’t know anything about it being illegal to practice kung fu in Scandinavia, but it’s a pretty random thing to make up. Either way, I do agree that proof would be useful.
Finally, as a bodyguard, he would usually kill terrorists via bullets, not kung fu. I don’t know, maybe it did make the news, but it doesn’t seem likely. I would say that there ‘could’ be proof of this. Not ‘should’.
Anyway, I’m just trying to be a protagonist, since most of guys are presenting the negative opinion.
Will see if I can get a copy of the ‘evidence’ DVD, and permission to upload it to youtube.
Hmm, I think my previous post was too long and needs a moderator to approve it. Can someone help me out?
Cheers
Yep, trollshido. Why? This is a continuation of terrafirma. Impartial critique of the research methods that gets angrier and angrier. Yeah, it may not go that way, but telling people how to conduct an investigation is stupid no matter how it is sugar coated.
No,props from me for reading because you have addressed every point imaginable:
- Cantonese
- Loss of language
- His Safety
- Can’t prove a negative
- Flawed research after complimenting the work.
- Live and let live
There are more, but I can’t be bothered to pick you apart. If you have something relevant to being in to the thread besides a nearly deleted un-sourced wiki link and a personal appeal to authority fine. Otherwise make your arguments in here.
why the cull?
Tell me exactly what it added to the discussion that wasn’t already addressed by other angrier posters?
Fair enough