[quote=stubbe78;2294002]Anthony has not written a note in the book about using fake names and therefore it is not silly. However, I know that in the next issue of his book, he will write that he didn’t use correct names for all the persons in the book. What’s silly is the fact that he didn’t put that in the first issue[/quote]Thank you. There you go. The book was published in 2005 right? Sorry, after all the great undercover news investigations and autobiographies it is to late to claim ignorance.
Just when I thought you could not get your foot further into your mouth. No even an apology for accusing me of not reading the book. Have you ever listed any reference to where you got YOUR material in the book?
So you claim to be looking for the truth. You claim we have not read the book. You claim the stories we tell are embellished. You provide no evidence. When presented with evidence and pages from the book you claim I have not read, what is your response? Your response was to attack that I did research based off the book.
First you want us to only use the book. Then you want us to do research before we comment. I did both and now you are saying I should not have done that. Which way do you want it? Of course I believe Tony used the man’s real name. Why should I doubt he is lying about the names in the book? What would have happened if he used the guy’s real name?
Enlighten me or are you just chasing windmills and butthurt over the fact you have been outed as biased, grasping at straws and trying to turn the discussion to what you want rather than the truth.
An apology from Terrafirma
Agreed. That is a serious oversight, which we are now assured is being addressed.
I too must apologise to all those googling “Terrafirma” for not making clear at the outset that this is not my real name. I have no defence. I deserve your censure and I ask your forgiveness. It was a very silly oversight on my part. I must also make clear that my wife’s real name is not Santeria Claus, or Mary Poppins.
The reason I used a cover name was so that I could say more than I possibly could if my real identity was revealed.
I also apologise to Mr. Santadog (sorry I don’t know your first name). I can only think that your post answering my question (as to whether or not you had read the Book) was culled before I had a chance to see it. I can’t seem to find any trace of it.
That is the problem with “criticism with a knife” (i.e. censorship). It is hard to get any sort of true idea about what is going on when voices are being arbitrarily silenced.
[quote=terrafirma;2294238]Agreed. That is a serious oversight, which we are now assured is being addressed.
I too must apologise to all those googling “Terrafirma” for not making clear at the outset that this is not my real name. I have no defence. I deserve your censure and I ask your forgiveness. It was a very silly oversight on my part. I must also make clear that my wife’s real name is not Santeria Claus, or Mary Poppins.
The reason I used a cover name was so that I could say more than I possibly could if my real identity was revealed.
I also apologise to Mr. Santadog (sorry I don’t know your first name). I can only think that your post answering my question (as to whether or not you had read the Book) was culled before I had a chance to see it. I can’t seem to find any trace of it.
That is the problem with “criticism with a knife” (i.e. censorship). It is hard to get any sort of true idea about what is going on when voices are being arbitrarily silenced.[/quote]
You are NOT being Censored nor is anyone else. Anyone can post here and say what they want. It just happens that most people on here disagree with you, which oddly enough is closer to a democracy.
Occams Razor
entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem, is the principle that “entities must not be multiplied beyond necessity”
Even without researching every claim in Tonys book the probability of him being involved in so many fantastic events is high unlikely. Based on Occams Razor what is more straight forward:
That Tony Anthony born in the UK has been sent to China at a very young age to learn the families art of kung fu, been raised as a buddhist under an increasingly brutal regime of beatings,
played with an albino wild tiger
( bearing in mind that a BBC film crew with tiger experts spent months searching for white tigers in the only place they are known to inhabit and only got a few minutes of footage) because of a near supernatural affinity with animals,
took part in a ceremony that was the invention of a TV series anmd would have left permanent burn scars on his wrists (no amount of skin grafting would remove these without leaving some scarring),
become a world champion in an organisation that no one including experienced martial artists has ever heard of and has no trail on the internet,
then become a bodyguard who is an expert with a gun and who could have chosen to shoot to disarm other armed people but instead killed them (only documented incident of a person disarming an armed person was a police sniper in america who shot a gun out the hands of a man who was seated and sitting still at the time)
, whose girlfriend was killed and he took revenge for her, who then became jailed in a prison and had a moment of religious enlightenment that happens to redeem him from his past to spread the message of the lord.
OR
Tony Anthony is lying in part or whole with regards to the events of his life.
Terra Firma you are right INNOCENT until proven GUILTY, but this does not mean we have to believe his story without evidence to the contrary. The prosection in a trial will always act from a position of attack in regard to what they believe. This forum is written for those who do not believe in TA’s claims and as a place to gather and discuss evidence to that effect, so yes it is biased but most people have not stated that they conclusively proved that Tony Anthony is a liar in respect to his claims, yet we are working towards it.
As to research methods, put up or shut up, either put in the work and actually prove or disprove the claims or stop wasting our time.
Voices aren’t arbitrarily silenced here, nothing is deleted without very good reason, otherwise it defeats the purpose of an investigative site.
This is yet another attempt to lead the casual reader into believing that something is ‘missing’ from this thread, and that the missing pieces justify Anthonys claims, and that we, the big meanies of Bullshido, have removed them in order to make attacking him easier.
You have no interest in the truth at all, you merely want to constantly derail the thread. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if you were TA himself, since you focus so much on suggesting that “the book might just be possible you know, and without evidence otherwise why not?” Realising that the odd gullible reader might still buy into your bullshit story.
Or maybe you are just a third party, with an obsession about this story being true. Who knows.
One thing is certain though, you have no interest about the truth.
To late. You got caught with your pants down. He told you the names were fake yet, it wasn’t noted in the book. It can’t be fixed.
I too must apologise to all those googling “Terrafirma” for not making clear at the outset that this is not my real name. I have no defence. I deserve your censure and I ask your forgiveness. It was a very silly oversight on my part. I must also make clear that my wife’s real name is not Santeria Claus, or Mary Poppins.
The reason I used a cover name was so that I could say more than I possibly could if my real identity was revealed.
I also apologise to Mr. Santadog (sorry I don’t know your first name). I can only think that your post answering my question (as to whether or not you had read the Book) was culled before I had a chance to see it. I can’t seem to find any trace of it.
That is the problem with “criticism with a knife” (i.e. censorship). It is hard to get any sort of true idea about what is going on when voices are being arbitrarily silenced.
Oh wow, now you claim people are being censored? Wow.
Using a pseudonym in a book, without proper notation, is not the same as using one on the net. Are you really trying to float that excuse?
Who told who what? Now I am confused. I read that there was going to be a disclaimer in the next edition of the Book. That is why I thought it rather silly of Santadog to google William Black, as it has already been admitted by Avanti that names in the Book were changed. Even without that admission I would have expected the name of William Black to be a pseudonym.
My point is that so far nothing has been proved in 60 pages. Which is why I suggested new lines of enquiry along the lines of TA’s parents (would a son who claims to be eager to “win his parents to Christ” write about his mother in such a negative way), his ethnicity, and whether or not he speaks fluent Cantonese.
Instead of following these, you are just going round in circles - and becoming more and more dizzy in the process.
Another suggestion: why not also take the debate to a Christian forum - not to take it away from Bullshido, but because any supporter of TA would be nuts to post here as he would be torn apart.
Just for the record: I am not a supporter of TA. My gut instinct when watching the Youtube clips was that he is lying. The Book, I totally agree, is fantastic, but nothing in it is impossible. You can make it “impossible” by tweaking parts of it and adding a few bits and pieces.
The fact is that millions of people apparently believe in Tony’s story. If we are going to open their eyes we will need at least one piece of solid evidence. And, for the record, I am working on it.
As I said in a previous post, I am though open-minded enough to accept the possibility that I end up with proof that TA is genuine, although my gut instinct is that he is not.
I suppose even this will lead to another barrage of heated indignation, but I can take it. Fire away…
[quote=terrafirma;2294349]Who told who what?[/quote] You were told the original book had no disclaimer. You know the whole basis of you “it is silly” argument.
Now I am confused. I read that there was going to be a disclaimer in the next edition of the Book.
Uhmmm you just told multiple people to buy the book. Now your argument is based off of an edition that hasn’t come out? That is fstupid.
So, SD was silly because you read something no one else did? That is extremely stupid. Notice, instead of saying “oh there is going to be a disclaimer,” you just say it is silly to research.
That is why I thought it rather silly of Santadog to google William Black, as it has already been admitted by Avanti that names in the Book were changed.
Proof is where?
Even without that admission I would have expected the name of William Black to be a pseudonym.
Right because you are an idiot. Disclaimers are placed in books, movies and TV shows for a reason. It is 2005 there is no excuse to not have done this in the first edition. None at all.
Where is this admission? when was it posted? You cried about people reading the book to add to the research. Yet, you leave out a key point that all the names were pseudonyms? You aren’t here to help you are here to confuse and type.
My point is that so far nothing has been proved in 60 pages. Which is why I suggested new lines of enquiry along the lines of TA’s parents (would a son who claims to be eager to “win his parents to Christ” write about his mother in such a negative way), his ethnicity, and whether or not he speaks fluent Cantonese.
Yes, many of his claims have been proven false. Many of his claims have been shown to be murder. Many of his claims are patently false. That’s when you pulled the book defense out of your ass.
Instead of following these, you are just going round in circles - and becoming more and more dizzy in the process.
Really? You already admitted you were confused don’t put your problems on me.
Who hasn’t stopped harping on the book?
Then when it moves forward who keeps harping on the book?
When people refute the points in the book with facts who keeps harping on the book?
Then when you assumed people didn’t read the book they give you page numbers. Then you cry it isn’t about the book.
Then you start harping about the book.
Circles.
Yep, you are the one using circular reasoning. You are so confused you don’t realize you created the circle.
Another suggestion: why not also take the debate to a Christian forum - not to take it away from Bullshido, but because any supporter of TA would be nuts to post here as he would be torn apart.
Go do it then.
Why would we worry about his Christianity?
We are discussing his martial claims and other BS that flows form his claims. You know a Martial Arts website discussing Bullshit in the Martial Arts… He can be a Christian all he wants.
Just for the record: I am not a supporter of TA.
Yes, you are. If you are going to help with the investigation do something besides saying people are wrong. People don’t need a conductor the thread was fine until you appeared.
It is funny how you want the thread moved to a safe haven for you on another forum.
That will be rectified shortly.
[quote=It is Fake;2294363]
It is funny how you want the thread moved to a safe haven for you on another forum.[/quote]
I don’t. I feel ok here. I was thinking about his supporters. Seriously, I’ll try to keep quiet for a bit. But remember folks: Nothing is yet proved. Hopefully it soon will be. I still think that Mr P is the one most likely to come up with the result first, if he beats me to it.
I beg to differ. I think that I proved that TA was not arrested in Stockholm back in 1990 (which the book says).
The prison he claims to have been at wasn’t in use at the time he claims to have been there, the hotel doesn’t exist, swedish police records hold no such record of the events he claims to have taken place, etc etc etc.
That is proof. It’s a proven fact he wasn’t in that prison. It’s an impossibility.
Seriously, every other post of your is trying to engender this idea that “it all still could be true as nothing is proven”. But it’s simply not true. If this investigation was written up now there would be enough real proof for someone to read it and realise the reality behind TA claims.
That it’s bullshit.
He claims that the Turkish word for prisonguards is “varianos” that is not true either, I got a friend to check it with her Turkish friends. The only hit you get when searching for “varianos” on the internet is a Cypriotic travelagency
There will be a huge cull coming. The good information will stay like the current summary by yoj and the information dispelling shit from the book.
The whole “I am the investigation Police you are doing it wrong will be moved.”
Yes terra a large portion of your derail will be gone. That way you can complain truthfully about thread editing.
Thanks IIF, cull the shit out of anything I posted that was unrelated to the investigation itself, I know you will anyway, but I’m stating that i support such activity on my posts to get the investigation back onto track, and I’d expect anyone with a genuine interest in the truth, rather than the obfuscation of it, to feel the same.
Welcome to trollshido.
After reading the thread, to cull innocuous posts, holly crap you are a douchebag terrafirma.
Read the book? How many people, investigating claims read the book? Do you even know? I do and that is why this is all in trollshido.
[quote=ladidada;2295054]Hey,
Tony Anthony will be on live on Genesis TV (Sky 592) this Wednesday @ 9pm to 10.30pm I believe. It is a Christian channel which broadcasts in the UK and possibly elsewhere.
During the show you can call to speak to whichever guest is on or send in txt or email which the presenter will read out.
If you are nice and respectful I would imagine you may get a few of your questions answered especially if you phone-in/email en masse.
I am open minded about Tony, when I see him speak I believe him but there are as you mention discrepancies.
What he is doing appears to be positive, my only worry is that people who hear him and are convicted by his words may lose faith when they encounter sites such as this which rip apart his testimony.
Give him a chance; none of us are sure and on that basis he is innocent until proven guilty. As he is not hurting anyone but rather, from what we can see, aiming to help and encourage I think it is reasonable to go easy.
B[/quote]
Welcome Ladida. I am keeping quiet at the moment, having had all but one of my previous posts deleted. But you are not the only open-minded person here.
Being open minded has nothing to do with the stupidity inherent in your posts.
I forgot you joined using terrafirma as a troll to terraform.
I forgot that multiple people read the book and you trolled the one person that did not.
I forgot your entire post history was from you repeating everything addressed from the beginning of the thread.
I forgot everyone had put the tiger story to bed and you dredged it back up.
After reading the entire thread again I see you added nothing new. You argued what people should do never adding anything yourself. All you did was cause people to repeat what was said much earlier in the thread. That is why all but one of your posts was removed.When you become a mod, staffer, or forum leader you can dictate how a thread should proceed.
Your posts havenn’t been deleted, or can’t you read? I can scroll back through these pages and read pages of repetitious nonsense. How many times do you need to be told what is happening before you will believe it’s true?
Would you like the Bullshido rules and regs written into book form for you, then you might take on board what’s happened?
Perhaps we could have it ghost written for you.
[quote=Yoj;2295573]I want an IP check please.[/quote] Yoj, you really are confirmed as a complete and utter idiot if you think I am Ladidada!!
That is as strong as my language gets. I won’t use the vile, disgusting language you guys have used against me in Trollshido. You really ought to learn some self control.
[quote=ladidada;2295567]I have not kept up with the latest issues in terms of dealing with the authenticity of the book so when you say “too spectacular” there may be some things I’m missing.
Some of the things which I have already seen mentioned are a bit suspect.
I actually contacted Tony and he mentioned several things which could explain some issues regarding verfiability: his real name is not Tony Anthony but due to death threats from family in China he changed some personal details about himself and others in order to protect their identity also, in addition to this he added that there are many different types of world championships in kung fu which would makes things complicated (i’m paraphrasing).
My personal thoughts are that if he were lying what would be the purpose. The experience he writes about happened almost 18 years ago during which time he claims to have been evangelising. Why would the evangelism come before the get rich quick scheme, if what he is doing is even profitable.
If Tony were to be lying in my view he has not been born again as someone who has would not purposely set out to deceive and live in that lie. He couldn’t really know Christ and live in sin.
But I remember the Pharisees and how misguided their approach was and I don’t want to be like that, if Tony is true he is doing a good job.
“No. Good people don’t create huge lies. Good people make mistakes. Yes, there is a difference.”
I am not saying that if he were lying it would be okay just because he either had good intentions or the end result was good. If it were a lie, I believe it would all be a lie, a fraud rather than a short sighted mistake to win others for Christ. My thoughts are that his actions appear to be good and I think he might be telling the truth.
I do recall him saying the book were being made into a movie, in which case I’m sure there would be a great deal of scutiny over his story considering what’s happened in the past with the likes of James Frey etc.
B[/quote] You make some excellent points. I totally agree that if it were a lie it would all be a lie.