Imagine if this was happening in your home at your day job. Tell me you’d be with it. This is your hobby, not your job or your home. Recognize your place. I can’t compromise because that’s my job, my home, my credit card number, etc. Back the fuck down.
And you know these are not ordinary business practices. The only one you can name getting fleeced by a rogue party is your dojo. In the restaurant industry, the health inspector doesn’t need you to be a Burger King to issue your cert. BJJ is supposed to be a legit job, not the exception to being legit.
I do security and the company down the road doesn’t want me to be a manager? Tough shit. Same with every other gig in my life AND IN YOURS. I will NOT be placed into that position. And it ain’t like its Gordan Ryan asking for a bag (I’d still say no), its two losers that aren’t grapplers.
And I’m only trying to talk this out, so I don’t have to start clapping. This is America. I need my fucking money or I die anyways. Worst case scenario on crime is three hots and a cot, or death. Which is what is happening here over Carlos greed. My (former) family likely will die and is currently homeIess. I need my motherfucking money. Fuck this scammer and everyone in the way.
Whoever said that BJJ(or any Martial Arts instruction for that matter) is supposed to be a “legit job” especially if you want to play with the IBJJF.
Let’s look at some other people who don’t get to play with the IBJJF, Dean Lister, Royce Gracie, Enson Inoue, BJJ Globetrotters.
IBJJF is a money making organization. Honestly this like being a pro-golfer and complaining the local country club wants you to pay dues to play on their 18, and give lessons on their driving range. You can open your own club and teach BJJ without any affiliation whatsoever to the IBJJF. You just can’t register athletes to compete in their competitions. If you want to play their global club, than you have to pay their dues. It is what it is.
Now if not wanting to pay into their club was used to deny you a belt, and you can document that, and you feel that it is worth your time and effort to do so, than OK, provide the documentation.
If you can’t document it, again let me be the first to say, my sympathies, that sucks, but there isn’t much more that can be done.
I can document that I was denied a belt promotion(Brown) because of the art on my walls, the way I chose to mourn my life, and a number of other things that have no connection to my abilities on the mat(I actually have a recording of the conversation). Its just not worth my time and energy to make a thing of it on Bullshido. I’ll be happier and healthier just moving on.
I can’t move on. That was my lifes savings and investments. Next step is to grab a gun and show you the horror you brought into my world. Its not a debate. I need my motherfucking money back. Period. And if I cant get it, its jail or the streets anyways. You gonna pay my rent? This is not a debate. IBJJF is just people to aim at. No one in BJJ is entitled to my credit number. Come and take it.
I’m really sympathetic to your situation. It is not to dissimilar from my own in a lot of ways. I’m not trying to antagonize you, or pile on. If there is anything I can do to help you I will. If you can find a way forward, that doesn’t involve threats or violence, I would encourage you to take it. Even so, I’ll be one of those who is willing to listen to whatever you have to say. Please understand if I’m asking questions, it is just because I’m looking for clarification.
“Whoever said that BJJ(or any Martial Arts instruction for that matter) is supposed to be a “legit job” especially if you want to play with the IBJJF.”
Mike Moses. He had me living in a supply closet over this with 300 a month income.
All I’m doing is cashing out MY OWN MONEY, with a deal I agreed on. The Carlos deal is NOT a deal I agreed on and involves violent abuse. THIS IS ALREADY VIOLENT. It was violent the second Vinny said “Credit card number or else.”
Ok. Who is calling you a fraud? It for sure isn’t me. So I’ll be happen to listen.
“Whoever said that BJJ(or any Martial Arts instruction for that matter) is supposed to be a “legit job” especially if you want to play with the IBJJF.”
Mike Moses. He had me living in a supply closet over this with 300 a month income.
I really don’t understand what you are saying here? If you care to explain more, it would be much appreciated.
All I’m doing is cashing out MY OWN MONEY, with a deal I agreed on. The Carlos deal is NOT a deal I agreed on and involves violent abuse. THIS IS ALREADY VIOLENT. It was violent the second Vinny said “Credit card number or else.”
What money are you trying to get back? Can we start a fund for you to help you move on?
I invested 100% of everything into BJJ after I was offered a job in the field. The job turned out to be 300$ a month, where I lived in a fucking supply closet, but trained 8 hours a day.
So I take this opportunity and then eventually move out, start a business at brown, assuming that there was no issue and I could recoup my investment. And then I run into fucking Carlos. Who wants to freeze my career to sell an affiliation.
And for a number, it’s like legit 144k, opportunity cost for like a decade, plus the price of one human soul. Like, the soul of your closest loved one. And not just separated from you. But obliterated, so that the person she was will never be seen again. Evil has been done here. You can not afford to take lives for fun. It is not ok and you do not wish to bear the cost. I am telling you of the cost, so I don’t have to show you. BJJ must stop.
Horrific things are going to happen by the hundreds, because thats how many people the enemy brought. I bear no ill will and wish to see no more horror. Get your heads out of your asses. The BJJ community needs to leave Tabor alone and should have in the first place. You dont need a business deal or my credit card number to fuck off. This isn’t an argument. There is zero compliance, no credit card numbers, no business deals and no rank drop over that. It’s not happening and you can not get violent about it anymore. And no, there is no misunderstanding.
And this, my friends, is what happens when cult-y organizations and institutions have traditions that include expected and compulsory free labor, societal mores and norms are disregarded for cultish ones, in manners that result in real consequences to people’s lives and families.
It does not matter if we are talking about religious cults, martial arts cults, sex cults, or sports organizations.
When people snap out of it, and realize they allowed themselves to be poorly treated, they are often bitter, and angry, and sometimes traumatized by it, for a long time, sometimes permanently.
And sometimes these things affect their families as well.
Absolutely. My man, I think you need a new venue to ply your trade that doesn’t answer to monopolies.
I get that the IBJJF says this stuff is to insure standards but it’s clear they’re abusing the model. I think you should just be done with them. They can’t take your considerable skill away from you. There’s a million jack-of-all-trades guys like me out there but you’re a master of at least one thing.
That’s something to be proud of and you can still monetize that no matter what the IBJJF, Carlos or anyone else says about it. You may not be able to use their Intellectual Property brands in your resume but you can sure as hell use your competition record. They don’t own your past, they just own their brand name.
Was there anything worse, than a machine, big enough, so that people in seats, convince themselves that saying “I just work here” or “I am just doing what the people in authority positions told me to do” is a real excuse for bad behavior?
When that machinery is big enough, and ignorant enough, that after damage occurs, there is no real complaints department that gives a shit, no one to fight, no one to demand satisfaction from, and there is certainly no practical recourse…
I am reminded of insurance companies, the movie “A Bronx Tale”, the many horrors of religious cults, the constant disappointment of martial arts cults, and to satisfy Godwin, the Nuremburg Trials, The Milgram Experiment, and the Stanford Prison Guard Experiments.
PT Barnum was not wrong.
Every generation, every old scam, is dressed in new clothes, and people line up a mile down the street to buy a ticket.
What fools, these mortals be.
On the other hand, we can plant, or we can burn.
When we plant and grow things, there is profit.
And when we burn, we often not only often burn ourselves up, we also sometimes burn innocents in the cross fires.
The Devil gets his due, either way, when we burn, in most cases.
JT is brown belt
Instructors says I am promoting you to black belt
VS/CG say well one sec we are gonna need $4000 affiliate fee before that happens because Gracie.
JT says no im not paying for what I already earned as in a black belt.
They say well no money for us no black belt for you.
JT puts on his black belt
The internet goes full retard
Bullshido watches but nobody senior creates sufficient stink about it in JT’s defence.
I feel like id like to stick it to the IBJJF for this but I dont know what we could do.
Its like all cults, you go to scientology now and try and tell some of them in the church they are in a cult worshiping bullshit, they wont listen.
Try telling everyone david Miscavige is a charlatan (dont stalk me now ) nobody in side the church will give a flying fish salad.
My understanding is that there was a mat promotion. I.e. someone with the proper cred literally tied the belt on him. Then when he wouldn’t pony up cash they asked for it back/denied that they gave it to him.
Nah, PDA’s story is more accurate. When I say I was promoted, I mean I earned a black belt, the instructor recognized this and went to do some paperwork after insisting I advance to black. The paperwork was deliberately misprocessed by a third party to come back to a bill of 2-4k.Then they started talking openly about freezing me at brown belt until such time as I paid. I took the coaches actions as promotion and the other guys actions as extortion, so I put the belt on. Why? Because the initial promotion was legit and the fraud took place at the paperwork handling side of things. There was no fraud on my end. The “tying it on” thing is irrelevant. I’m looking at this like a proper school/work place, because that’s what I thought I was involved with. It’s like if a teacher gets caught fudging grades and writes down an F, while asking for your credit card number and telling you to buy a 2k tutoring session, AFTER he tells you earned an A. It’s fraud. Anyone is gonna tell you they got an A and the teacher is a crook. That’s what I’m saying. I earned a black belt, which I needed for my actual, every day, normal career, and the guy that handled the paperwork ran a con job to make it appear as if I only made brown. I actually made black. Changing someone’s grades to extract money is fraud. You don’t go “WELL DID HE WRITE AN A? NO? THEN YOU FAIL” when a teacher gets caught doing that. Typically they get fired and/or arrested.
Welcome to culty Brazilian behavior. Kiss the the ring, do as I say or don’t get promoted or even get demoted. I saw a Braziliab black belt tell another black belt that if he wanted to train in their club(only one in the city at the time) he would have to get knocked down to purple. Reason? The guy used Marijuana, and so didn’t have the “character” to be a black or brown belt.
I used to roll with a guy that was always high as fuck; he had no off switch, so when he tapped you, you would have to fucking yell. It was interesting. I stopped rolling with him.