So the wrestler cross training judo saying literally that they are much weaker is bullshitting?
I don’t. i just won’t engage in your feeble attempts at putting me down.
You will note that you never challenge things I say negatively about myself, those you accept…but whenever it’s positive, oh he’s a liar. Fuck that. You are not objective. Don’t even pretend that you are.
Bruce lees jeet kune do did to this day. He doesn’t even pretend he can box.
Had he surfaced today, and not been in movies,he would have been looked at like Frank Dux
It depends on where he trained, and with whom. If he’s in some rec club, and he’s a serious wrestling competitor, might well be true.
You have to be specific about these things. Generalizing from what that one guy told you is not the way to go.
See what I mean?
Even in the USA, there is not a lot of what I’d call adult, recreational wrestling, going on. It’s mostly about competing, and it’s mostly grade school through college aged kids.
I competed against guys in my own weight class who were stronger than me all the time. It was very rare I was overwhelming anybody with raw strength, besides, that’s not how I did judo anyway.
So you have within and between variation in strength for wrestlers and judoka, even within a given weight class. Those narrow down the higher the level of competition, because the higher you go, the stronger you have to be, in either case. For some people, like I was, it was literally physically impossible for me to be strong enough to be competitive at higher levels of Judo. Wrong genetics, wrong structure.
And so what does that have to do with grappling? I’m not aware of any real footage of Bruce Lee in competitive matches.
Those guys suck, jeez… looks more like a demo.
But, whatever, he’s dead and nobody cares.
I don’t need a wrestler telling me that gi-grappling is less dependent on strength than grabbing someones body.
I could have figured that one out by myself.
He’s still huge and has cults of people believing he would beat any man on earth regardless of size and experience.
You have not done much jacket wrestling, then, right?
And you have to take into account rule sets as well.
You have a better grip somewhat, with the jacket, but so does your opponent. So that evens out. A lot of grip fighting goes on, but, again, that depends on the ruleset. Current judo rules limit that somewhat, or better to say, restrict it somewhat.
It’s yet another trope that gi-vs no gi requires more strength for no gi.
And again, trying to isolate “strength” is not the correct approach to a valid comparison.
Right, and we have Q-Anon too…
I did gi grappling once… Big difference from wrestling. Much harder to switch positions. Grip strength advantage still kept me afloat but there were more variables to keep track of at the same time.
yeah, it’s different than no-jacket wrestling, for sure, mostly in the grips, but, ruleset is important as well.
If we did something like normal judo rules, but no jacket, or wearing a wrestling singlet, and no lower body attacks with the hands, it would look like Greco Roman rules with leg vs leg attacks (ashi waza) allowed.
If it was open rules grappling with no jacket, and leg grabs with hands allowed, and a blend of wrestling scoring and judo scoring…
See what I mean about other variables? Strength, isolated, starts to be a much less important variable… let alone skill level within the disparate grappling rulesets and uniforms.
When I wrestled, for fun, at the local high school, the hardest part was getting used to not having a jacket to hold onto, and dealing with shots, because the judo rules had changed, and I had not trained against guys who could do shots for quite some time.
That’s a good observation.
Skill at grip fighting with the jacket becomes a big thing, as well. No-jacket wrestling has it’s own set of gripping skills. There is crossover, though.
1 Like
Maybe, but the difference is most of the mythology of Lee AFAIK didn’t come from himself but from those around him including Linda who stood to make money from his brand. He wanted to make movies with realistic fights and star in them. He would probably have been looked at more like Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, Donnie Yen than Frank Dux i.e. a Chinese man with an athletic background who makes good action movies with great, especially compared to Hollywood, fight choreography trying to break into the US market.
I like what Joe Lewis said about Lee: “He’s a little guy, I’d just grab him and throw him on the ground”.
Don’t ask me for a source, I read that a long time ago, somewhere.
You saw the fake demo which could have might as well been Aikido.
Again, AFAIK Lee never went around saying he was a fighter much less the best fighter and could beat real fighters. He wanted to make movies and did so. A lot of that “he was the best fighter/martial artist” talk came from people after his death who stood to make money from his legacy.
@BrevardFighter He was teaching a system of punching that was bullshido and claiming it was superior to boxing
He was smart not to step into a boxing gym and say that, if he did.
The cult fans claim that he did against a number of pros and quote wasn’t touched.
Bruce lee advocated throwing with your power hand forward…and he basically did lots of lead round punches
It’s all party tricks. All speed, no mass.
Western Boxing was even adopted by the proud Thai fighters. There is no debate on this.
Boxing is so fundamental to striking, I can estimate how well someone will do as a stand-up fighter based solely on the fact if he can box.
Boxing is to striking what jiujitsu is to grappling… Good luck without it.