Sifu Martin Brogaard Reckons He Did Muay Thai And BJJ And Wing Chun Is Better

Before I break this down for you, let me just put this out there:

Anyway, let me introduce you to Sifu Martin Brogaard:

Okay, serious now. The above YouTube short is nonsense, pandering clearly to those already doing Wing Chun who have drunk the KoolAid and who want someone to tell them that their Sunken Cost is totally worth it.

You can find out more about this super duper awesome dude and his amazing Wing Chun history here

You’ll not find a single sparring video, light or otherwise, and you will find a tonne of videos about the philosophy and strategy that makes his form of Wing Chun teh deadliest.

It’s fucking infuriating, not least because his accent is so pretentious, but add in the fact that he clearly has never dealt with any actual fighters, yet espouses “I’m a real martial artist” nonsense like Biden without a teleprompter. Or with one.

I’ve watched a tonne of his YouTube Shorts and can tell you his main message is that in order to be the winner in a fight you need to be in a “position of advantage”, which, according to him, is close enough that a Muay Thai guy can’t kick you, and far enough away that a BJJ can’t grapple you, which is the perfect distance for him to be able to punch you.

If you can’t understand just how retarded that is, then you’re not a fighter.

“One of the crucial reasons why it’s so important to be ahead on timing is because it will bring you in a position of advantage or at least give you the opportunity to be in a position of advantage and that is the X Factor”

Fucking lol

Dude in the comment simping, “Listen carefully, this man isn’t just teaching you how to do martial arts, he’s teaching you ooda loop.”

They’re always on about it being for self defence, not sport, but if you’re “ahead of timing” in a self defence situation, you’re likely the aggressor.

I’m not done dunking on this dude, I’ll be back in the comments.

Perhaps you should “Stop Wasting Time On Misguided & Insufficient Training, And See Your Kung Fu Skills Raise Exponentially.”

First time I’ve seen OODA in a conversation about Chun.


Here’s the money shot. The lighting in this video is bad in parts, but you can clearly make out the theme, which is to demonstrate how to use Wing Chun to defeat a gym beefcake with 100lbs of muscle over you who could easily break your neck, if only your Leung Wing Chun quanfa wasn’t so damn powerful.

The suit sells the illusion. Who needs biceps when you can rock the fit. And it’s in a ring, so you know it’s real.

I actually give this guy props, I took him to school and he was receptive.

But yeah, OODA has no place here.

I haven’t seen all of his videos, but man, this is a fucking lolfest.

As a concept the application of the OODA loop is pretty broad, you could probably apply it to any instance where you are facing an adversary.

As to the video, I mean it’s the typical, throw a punch / kick and i’m going to do XYZ … which is like the backbone of most traditional technique training. That moving in with his hands down feels just perfect for a check hook, not to mention wing chun isn’t fan of blocking hooks, not to mention lack of clinch work if he’s fighting MT or even inside fighting if it was a boxer … these guys are a dime a dozen.

Too broad. It’s a deductive theory that is only partially grounded in empiricism. It works for some processes, but not for others. It’s a great example of a useful conceptual framework but it is far from one size fits all.

OODA actually breaks down the closer you get to the actual human neurological response times. Because humans aren’t computers. At that level, instinct+training takes over.

Strategic planning, weapons and tactics, heavy vehicle piloting, sure. I can safely pilot an F-15 with the help of instruments, my brain, and my senses. There’s a lot of information to consume in very short timeframes (seconds).

Hand to hand combat? Milliseconds. No time for OODA unless one of the fighters is a computer. Now, augmented reality could flip this on its head, by essentially giving a fighter real time data directly to the cerebral cortex. That would be like the lane proximity warning lights they now put on cars. There’s no time to think. It’s just a reaction.

Exactly. In a violent altercation, all you have is perception and action coupling. There is no little man in your head giving your body strategy. It’s always been said, you don’t rise to your potential, you fall to the level of your training.

In self defence, if you’re able to use OODA, you’re the aggressor.

You are a cyber guy right, so OODA is commonly used in cyber response. The idea is that an incident is a chaotic situation, you aren’t controlling the situation, you are adding to the chaos in an attempt to drive an outcome. Once action is taken you need to evaluate the outcome of your actions and tweak your response accordingly. A key idea is your actions aren’t the only ones that matter, and you need to understand your adversaries response, changes in the environment etc.

In a combat situation I wouldn’t expect you to OODA during punches thrown in milliseconds, but you’re setting up combos based on what’s working on your opponent, their level of fatigue, weakness in their defense, etc. Same principles apply. The flip side would be, you go into a fight with a fixed game plan and don’t change anything regardless of your opponents response during the match.

You can extend the same principles to a pandemic situation … it scales up and down, same as strategy same as the principles of war. Clausewitz (great military strategist for those that don’t know him) starts his definition of warfare with an analogy of wrestlers, because the principles are the same.

"We shall not enter into any of the abstruse definitions of war used by publicists. We shall keep to the element of the thing itself, to a duel. War is nothing but a duel on an extensive scale. If we would conceive as a unit the countless number of duels which make up a war, we shall do so best by supposing to ourselves two wrestlers. Each strives by physical force to compel the other to submit to his will: his first object is to throw his adversary, and thus to render him incapable of further resistance.

War therefore is an act of violence to compel our opponent to fulfil our will."

Wrong. I’m the hardest motherfucker on this website, physically.

There might be one or two others. Don’t be confused by their slow breathing.

Nope. You can think and plan your way through a fight.

But yeah. I do subscribe to a he is trapped in here with me mentality to fighting.

I see your Clausewitz, and raise you Von Moltke the Elder, referencing Napoleon.

Kein Operationsplan reicht mit einiger Sicherheit über das erste Zusammentreffen mit der feindlichen Hauptmacht hinaus.

Yep that’s the guy who said “no plan survives first contact”…very successful commander.

Moltke’s “system of expedients” is a good way of seeing where OODA breaks down. Time dependency. In his world, it was knowing his officers in the field could not wait for his feedback. He gave them a mission and let them run the book.

That’s in a totally different time domain than almost anything that requires real time response.

You don’t need an OODA loop to step on your car breaks if a kid runs out in front. You need trained reflexes.

OODA is more appropriate for when I’m driving through the ShopRite parking lot trying not to kill people at 10mph. It’s like Matrix bullet time in comparison to road driving in Jersey. I can see where that old lady is going to be in 10 seconds, which is a lifetime, so I can use tactical evasion.

As a side note. Has that always been said by guys who have done shit training?

Have you seen L.I.N.E training? It is just tragic. No wonder people thought that you turned in to a potato in a fight. They literally trained themselves to do that.

As compared to modern concepts like live training and task based games and that kind of thing. Which is just better.

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Always be closing.

If you insist on having a title like “sifu,” or “sensei,” or “POTUS,” then you are probably full of shit.

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In my experience, people may or may not find their potential under pressure. It’s a bit late to find out if they don’t. However I’d they’re training is sound they they are more likely to have that as a backstop at least.


Interesting topic.

There are other ways of “thinking” than just the run of the mill congnitive “little man in your head” stuff.

I think the OODA loop is more useful in combat sports in training, and in planning training, modifying training.

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I think suggesting" in a fight you will do this."

Is just one of those incredibly limited outlooks towards fighting that the self defence set seem to work with.

I have worked with guys who have very different processes to fighting.

My favourite is the Martian.

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Theorycrafting is strong with the “sport isn’t self defense” crowd.

These are the same TMA goons that say sparring is a small percentage of their training time. Meaning the other 90% is spent pretending to “refine technique” which is code for mental masturbation, grabbing air, and believing you can’t be skullfucked with a fist in a split second because you spent a lot of time thinking about avoiding strikes.


And this is where this comes in: