[QUOTE=BKR;2878439]I think you have to ask what the OPs primary purpose is to learn Judo. That would narrow the choices a bit.
1.) Reasonable, I typically start with De Ashi Barai, Ouchi Gari, O Goshi, and Kouchi Gari. I have falling skill progressions that end up there.
2.) For an average sized person, it’s not an issue, but with say, a tall person in a class of short folks, it makes a difference for sure. I’ve had that happen quite a bit. For sure you have to go with what is the least awkward possible.
3.) Ugh, I don’t think so. Pedagogically that’s not a good idea.
4.) Ugh, only if they suck as a teacher and you have no choice. I teach my students to do many, many throws better than I ever could, especially in competition.
5.) Really, start with the top 10 list ? I suppose that would be a choice out of the first 16 of the Gokyo, so not so bad, and the principle you are getting at is solid.
6.) Those are decent choices, but not for the reason you give. Upright, timing based Judo IS Judo, in the “classical” sense, although not the only effective one, it’s the purest form of physical Judo.
7.) Only if doing BJJ or wrestling, not for modern competition, or even “normal” judo training.
8.) Same thing, if he is interested in competing in “normal” judo competitions. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not a snob, but it all depends on what the OP wants to end up doing.
9.) Pedagogically unsound to say the least. Sutemi waza are the most subtle, difficult throws to do well.
10.) See 7.)
11.) O Guruma, really ? For a beginner, heavyweight tor otherwise ? I agree, you see it in high level comps, but it’s the end of a long process, not the beginning…
12.) Easy to use, maybe, because it’s so easy to do poorly and still throw unsuspecting noobs. Poor overall pedagogical choice as well.
So, to be clear, I’m not a one size fit’s all kind of judo teacher. I do think that the “basic” “style” of Judo is pretty much a general, all purpose way to learn grappling. I base that on the fact that it is based on the “upright” style, i.e., shizenhontai, AKA fundamental natural posture. Given an equally sized uke, different body shapes and sizes can be accommodated when learning basics.
The one in which the human body functions most efficiently.
Judo groundwork has it’s issues, but is sound as well, although of course restricted in submissions to elbow and chokes, more or less. Of course, there is not any emphasis on avoiding getting punched in the face as a fundamental, LOL !
In any case, starting with a general form and moving to more specific forms (for example, to sutemi, or more wrestling oriented forms of gi-grappling/judo) makes sense to me.[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree with your assessments regarding the various selection criteria, but I have seen all of them chosen.
I myself basically had to relearn Judo from a couple different points of view.
First, as a converted wrestler in my early 20’s, who only compared about competition.
Then as someone who was co-training Judo and BJJ,
Then as someone who got to train Judo in Brazil, France, and Japan (Judo is GOOD!).
Then as a cancer patient with artificial hips, bad knees, and now, middle aged.
And finally, mentally as someone who now can learn without worrying about immediate results,
and who realizes that there are often several valid ways to do something.
As my circle of training partners changed,
And my competition focus changed,
And then when my body changed (hip replacements, cancer, getting older etc).
And finally, mentally when I was able to let go, and just learn without worrying about immediate results for the next competition,
My point of view about the depth of Judo has continued to change.
I think the value of cycling through the Gokyo is timeless, and valuable for all expertise levels.
But, I am glad there are different approaches to Judo across the world.
Russian, European, Japanese Classical, Brazilian.
I’d love to go to Moscow at some point, and get to learn more about the Sambo point of view, too.
But, we’ll see. It might stay on the bucket list, unexecuted.