NYC pistol buying advice (non-carry permit)

Martial Arts Training Forums The Armory: Weapons, Military, LEO, and Self Defen
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so the unthinkable has happened. mrs. loyalist has agreed that it might not be a terrible idea for us to have a handgun in the house, considering the state of the world right now and that NYC is one of the top targets for terrorism.

this is great, cause although i agree with her, mostly i miss target shooting and would love to be able to do that on a regular basis. preparing for the jihad apocalypse is just a bonus.

now i will have to go through the tedious and annoying process for obtaining a “restricted premises only license” (which i used to believe came with a limitation on range visits, somehow it seems i was wrong, or that limitation has been lifted. so i get to go to the range and shoot, and have it in my house, and only transport it to/from the range, unloaded, in a locked case with the ammo separate.) we’ll see how hard it is for a jewish man with no criminal record and a reference letter from an LEO to get the license, as there are no guarantees that it will be granted even if i meet all criteria.

here are the relevant NYC laws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York most important to this discussion is the magazine limit of 10 rounds for handguns (5 for rifles) as that may affect my choice of handgun.

i am neither a novice nor experienced shooter, as a kid i spent a ton of time plinking with a .22 rifle at YMCA camp, other than that i have been shooting only a handful of times (including the 1st bullshido shootout) but always with excellent instructors present, good attention paid to safety as well as correcting my technique, and usually a bunch of different guns to try out. based on those experiences i didn’t really find any glock 9mm nearly as fun to shoot as the other guns i shot. i had the worst marksmanship with them as well, but i blame that on me and not the gun.

the guns i most enjoyed shooting were (in order) 1911 ACP, .40, .44 magnum, .357 magnum, and colt .45 (cowboy style) - no i don’t really remember the make/model of those guns. i didn’t find the recoil to be a major issue with any of those butt he .44 magnum had that crazy long dirty harry barrel, so that helped a lot.

from reading online a lot of people argue against buying the guns i most like due to magazine capacity, expense, access to ammo and some design issues. for instance this guy hates everything but 9mm https://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/ph9kr/runnybear_i_want_buy_handgun_pls_tell_me_why_you/

on to the actual questions:

  1. considering that my magazine is limited to 10 rounds anyway by NYC law, should i care about that aspect at all? something about me really likes revolvers, but should i hold out for one as a second gun?

  2. considering that i will probably go to the range 1x/month tops and have a good job with some disposable income, should i let the cost of ammo deter me from the guns i enjoy?

  3. am i crazy to think the only reason i would want a 9mm would be in a “jihad/zombie apocalypse” situation where having a commonly found round would be desirable? (i was thinking that a mossberg 500 would be a better choice then anyway, and possibly a good 2nd purchase.) BTW the exact same process is involved in getting a shotgun in NYC as a handgun!!! this city is insane.

  4. there is only one gun shop that i know of within NYC, and i assume they are more expensive than average. i have a good friend who is a range safety officer/gun dealer in california who might be able to get me a nice, well vetted used gun, and as i understand it, that sale could be routed through a local gun shop for a fee. should i pursue this or is a used gun a terrible idea? Keep in mind that once i apply for the license it’s a waiting game of up to 6 months until i find out the answer, and then i have 30 days to buy a gun, or i have to start the whole process again. so any delay in the buying process could be bad for me.

  5. any other advice?

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Will mrs. loyalist be going to the range to familiarize herself with the handgun? I think this is the first thing to consider. Wheel gun if she’s going to be limited in her understanding and practice.

Shotgun for home defense is good. Type, again, depends on the Mrs. I’ll tell you, after you get a little further along in consideration, getting her involved with the selection process will, I think, be a good idea all around.

Apartment or house / condominium?

Keep in mind that regardless of what you choose, you must deploy and fire on target in an adrenaline pumping sphincter clamping moment. It is not the time to realize you’ve left the safety on, haven’t chambered a round or have other issues preventing your adjusting an individuals lead deficiency in your time of need.

Welcome to the club.

3

My advice is to leave NYC for a place where you are not treated like a child regarding firearms ownership.

No matter what kind of firearm you have, short of a chain gun attached to an Apache attack helicopter, I kind doubt you are getting out of NYC alive in a jihad/zombie apocalypse sort of situation, so I personally would not let that guide my choice.

You an get an 8 round .357 magnum revolver (Taurus comes to mind, I think Smith and Wesson makes one too), if you like revolvers. You can use the cheaper .38 special ammo for target practice. If you got into reloading (legal in NYC ? ), .38 special and .357 mag are easier to reload than the various semi-auto rounds.

I like the idea of a shotgun for a second weapon. It would be more useful in the zombie/jihadi apocalypse, plus you could go shoot trap or skeet as well.

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[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2875035]Will mrs. loyalist be going to the range to familiarize herself with the handgun? I think this is the first thing to consider. Wheel gun if she’s going to be limited in her understanding and practice.[/quote]

i have tried to interest her but between growing up in japan and being a buddhist she is just not into shooting (2 range visits failed to pique her interest.) there is a small chance i could get her interested in shooting a rifle with a scope for some reason i fail to understand.

Shotgun for home defense is good. Type, again, depends on the Mrs. I’ll tell you, after you get a little further along in consideration, getting her involved with the selection process will, I think, be a good idea all around.

i get to buy one gun every 90 days, so i think a shotgun is probably a future purchase (if i only get one thing and the shotgun is no easier i’m going for a handgun) plus i don’t think the range i can reasonably go to will allow shotguns other than during their tactical shotgun class (want to take this so badly)

Apartment or house / condominium?

rental apartment in a condo building. that may change to a condo that i own in the next 5 years, or may not.

Keep in mind that regardless of what you choose, you must deploy and fire on target in an adrenaline pumping sphincter clamping moment. It is not the time to realize you’ve left the safety on, haven’t chambered a round or have other issues preventing your adjusting an individuals lead deficiency in your time of need.

yeah i was thinking that i would like to get a blue gun of the same make/model and do semi-regular scenario based drills. the requirements to keep it in a gun safe with ammo in a separate container will make it difficult to deploy quickly. pretty much the only realistic situation that would arise where i would be able to use it would be if bad intentioned men were trying to break down my apartment door or gain entry with fake con edison credentials (this actually happened post hurricane sandy to people who lived in the projects in NYC, so it’s not completely insane to prepare for.)

Welcome the the club.

thanks! i’ve been waiting a long time :slight_smile:

5

Get training, find a gun range that allows you to rent a few guns and see what each of you agree with.

LOL@state of the world. Sorry, I just find that type of fear mongering justification funny.

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[QUOTE=BKR;2875036]My advice is to leave NYC for a place where you are not treated like a child regarding firearms ownership. [/quote]

for a number of reasons including the age of my mother and the general attitudes towards jews in this country (antisemitism is strongly on the rise) i think NYC is still my best choice.

No matter what kind of firearm you have, short of a chain gun attached to an Apache attack helicopter, I kind doubt you are getting out of NYC alive in a jihad/zombie apocalypse sort of situation, so I personally would not let that guide my choice.

yeah, hence my main reason being that i like guns and shooting. the fact that fear has finally gotten the wife on board is merely convenient.

You an get an 8 round .357 magnum revolver (Taurus comes to mind, I think Smith and Wesson makes one too), if you like revolvers. You can use the cheaper .38 special ammo for target practice. If you got into reloading (legal in NYC ? ), .38 special and .357 mag are easier to reload than the various semi-auto rounds.

yeah this was something i was strongly considering, doesn’t taurus get a bad rap for quality? not sure about reloading, but probably not going to happen in my apartment.

I like the idea of a shotgun for a second weapon. It would be more useful in the zombie/jihadi apocalypse, plus you could go shoot trap or skeet as well.

yeah plus i could go duck hunting with my stepdad. would be pretty funny to bring a mossberg 500 to shoot alongside his fancy italian shotguns.

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[QUOTE=It is Fake;2875039]Get training, find a gun range that allows you to rent a few guns and see what each of you agree with.[/quote]

LOL no this is NYC, you can’t do that. seriously. you can’t rent a gun until you have the license and then you have 30 days to buy, so you have to start the process right away. it’s retarded. compare that to LA where i was free to go to gun range and shoot just about anything i wanted!

LOL@state of the world. Sorry, I just find that type of fear mongering justification funny.

whatever convinces the wife. like i said, mostly i like to shoot.

8

First, allow me to congratulate you on the ole’ lady allowing you to have a tiny little piece of your balls back. That was super nice of her.

I’m a huge 1911 fan. Good old Nazi killing motherfucker. And unlike a Glock, it’s purty, so you can polish it and look at it and love it and kiss it even though you’re not allowed to actually shoot it or take it for a walk in NYC.

I don’t really like revolvers. That’s a personal preference, not a statement about the value of a revolver. If you’re going to get a revolver and you’re only going to have one gun, I’d get a Smith & Wesson. Some people will bitch because they’re using some MIM parts now but almost all gun manufacturers are these days. It’s not a big deal. The Smiths tend to be machined a little more precisely whereas Taurus and similar revolvers tend to not worry so much about precise fit of parts and instead take up slack with spring tension. Me no likey.

9

[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2875037]i have tried to interest her but between growing up in japan and being a buddhist she is just not into shooting

:)[/QUOTE] How to interest someone who grew up in Japan in shooting…Hmmmmmm…? That’s a tough one. Perhaps use use these for targets? :-p . I keed I keed .
I love teaching shooting with revolvers. Women especially seem to hate hot brass flying around them when they are shooting. If they wear low cut shirts the shells can hits them in the chest and fall down their shirt and ruin a good time with burns. A Ruger sp100 357 loaded with 38 is a fantastic gun to learn with. If the range you go to rents guns see if they have that one. The weight of it really dampens recoil and it’s a blast to shoot.

I agree with the other posters about a shot gun for home defense. A 12 ga shotgun is the greatest weapon ever made.
You can hunt everything in the western hemisphere with it from birds to Grizzly. You can put up 3" inch groups with slugs at a 100 yards or you can load it with 00 buck or birdshot and easily nail shit on the run.
If I had to recommend 1 gun to someone it would be the mossburg 500 12 ga . If you’re a small person I would recommend the 500 20 ga.

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[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2875040]for a number of reasons including the age of my mother and the general attitudes towards jews in this country (antisemitism is strongly on the rise) i think NYC is still my best choice.[/QUOTE]

When you can’t carry concealed, how on Earth do you protect your Jew gold?

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[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2875041]LOL no this is NYC, you can’t do that. seriously. you can’t rent a gun until you have the license and then you have 30 days to buy, so you have to start the process right away. it’s retarded. compare that to LA where i was free to go to gun range and shoot just about anything i wanted![/quote] MY order is off. 30 days is enough time to shoot and rent a few guns so, she can pick one she likes or is comfortable with. Then make her get training to be comfortable with the use of a gun, It’s what I did with my wife, who hated guns for years. We went to a ladies night, rented a caliber and tried about 5 different guns in that hour. A week later, we purchased a gun she liked. I don’t like it, but it is another gun in the house.

12

[QUOTE=Devil;2875043]First, allow me to congratulate you on the ole’ lady allowing you to have a tiny little piece of your balls back. That was super nice of her.

I’m a huge 1911 fan. Good old Nazi killing motherfucker. And unlike a Glock, it’s purty, so you can polish it and look at it and love it and kiss it even though you’re not allowed to actually shoot it or take it for a walk in NYC.

I don’t really like revolvers. That’s a personal preference, not a statement about the value of a revolver. If you’re going to get a revolver and you’re only going to have one gun, I’d get a Smith & Wesson. Some people will bitch because they’re using some MIM parts now but almost all gun manufacturers are these days. It’s not a big deal. The Smiths tend to be machined a little more precisely whereas Taurus and similar revolvers tend to not worry so much about precise fit of parts and instead take up slack with spring tension. Me no likey.[/QUOTE]

Devils speaks the truth here. Except Rugers are best revolvers imho. They are built stronger than any other production gun.
My two favorite pistols are my 1911 and My Ruger 454 Super Redhawk. You never know when you are gunna get mugged by a grizzly in Fl. You gotta be ready.
I also like my cz 75.

13

[QUOTE=Devil;2875043]First, allow me to congratulate you on the ole’ lady allowing you to have a tiny little piece of your balls back. That was super nice of her.

I’m a huge 1911 fan. Good old Nazi killing motherfucker. And unlike a Glock, it’s purty, so you can polish it and look at it and love it and kiss it even though you’re not allowed to actually shoot it or take it for a walk in NYC.

I don’t really like revolvers. That’s a personal preference, not a statement about the value of a revolver. If you’re going to get a revolver and you’re only going to have one gun, I’d get a Smith & Wesson. Some people will bitch because they’re using some MIM parts now but almost all gun manufacturers are these days. It’s not a big deal. The Smiths tend to be machined a little more precisely whereas Taurus and similar revolvers tend to not worry so much about precise fit of parts and instead take up slack with spring tension. Me no likey.[/QUOTE]

haha yeah, i married way up so i’d like to hang onto the lady as she puts up with most of my insanity.

so magazine capacity and cost of ammo doesn’t deter you from having a 1911? seems like for people that like them, they really like them. good brands/bad brands? i shot a nice kimber in LA, but hear horror stories about them as well. no love for the SW .40?

[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2875044]How to interest someone who grew up in Japan in shooting…Hmmmmmm…? That’s a tough one. Perhaps use use these for targets? :-p . I keed I keed .
I love teaching shooting with revolvers. Women especially seem to hate hot brass flying around them when they are shooting. If they wear low cut shirts the shells can hits them in the chest and fall down their shirt and ruin a good time with burns. A Ruger sp100 357 loaded with 38 is a fantastic gun to learn with. If the range you go to rents guns see if they have that one. The weight of it really dampens recoil and it’s a blast to shoot.

I agree with the other posters about a shot gun for home defense. A 12 ga shotgun is the greatest weapon ever made.
You can hunt everything in the western hemisphere with it from birds to Grizzly. You can put up 3" inch groups with slugs at a 100 yards or you can load it with 00 buck or birdshot and easily nail shit on the run.
If I had to recommend 1 gun to someone it would be the mossburg 500 12 ga . If you’re a small person I would recommend the 500 20 ga.[/QUOTE]

she likes dolphins, i’d have better luck with targets of invading chinese soldiers :slight_smile:

at the moment i have zero hope of getting her interested, i’m worried about me.

[QUOTE=Devil;2875045]When you can’t carry concealed, how on Earth do you protect your Jew gold?[/QUOTE]

i’m not jewey enough to get a CCW in nyc (you have to be a hasid and a diamond dealer), nor am i jewey enough to have jew gold or get to go to the meetings where we decide the weather. on the other hand i am definitely jewey enough for the antisemites to want me dead. having a shiksa for a mother sucks sometimes.

i manage by only leaving my apartment to go to my dojo, or food shopping. i work from home.

[QUOTE=It is Fake;2875046]MY order is off. 30 days is enough time to shoot and rent a few guns so, she can pick one she likes or is comfortable with. Then make her get training to be comfortable with the use of a gun, It’s what I did with my wife, who hated guns for years. We went to a ladies night, rented a caliber and tried about 5 different guns in that hour. A week later, we purchased a gun she liked. I don’t like it, but it is another gun in the house.[/QUOTE]

yeah she’s not going to get interested any time soon, i am purely focused on me, and was thinking i could get a better gun for less money (cause jewz) by leveraging my gun dealer friend in CA, which i assume would be a long and complex process.

14

Okay,

Handgun only for now.

Do you have children? If not, I’d not concern myself with having to keep unloaded and locked up. Seriously. If you’re going to have to store ammo and firearm separately, a wheel gun will require purchase and practice with a speed loader.

Do you have a budget constraint? With tools, you want to buy the best you can afford and take care of it. If it has added value as a hobby, you may be wanting to spend more than if it’s for defense only.

I didn’t read the laws you linked. Are there draconian limits on ammunition purchase?

All of these are legitimate points to consider.

Me? I like a big boom but also don’t want to be risking killing the neighbor next door. Nor do I want the SOB living through the encounter to run me through the legal system were he able to survive, saying he’d thrown up his hands and yelled “don’t shoot”. So what if I emptied into center mass?

15

[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2875040]for a number of reasons including the age of my mother and the general attitudes towards jews in this country (antisemitism is strongly on the rise) i think NYC is still my best choice.

yeah, hence my main reason being that i like guns and shooting. the fact that fear has finally gotten the wife on board is merely convenient.

yeah this was something i was strongly considering, doesn’t taurus get a bad rap for quality? not sure about reloading, but probably not going to happen in my apartment.

yeah plus i could go duck hunting with my stepdad. would be pretty funny to bring a mossberg 500 to shoot alongside his fancy italian shotguns.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, what’s a nice jewish boy like you doing with a less than $300 shotgun like that, I can hear it now…seriously, both my sons have the kid sized version in 20 gauge, and they function like clockwork. I’m looking to get one in 12 gauge for about $235 locally, synthetic stock.

I don’t know about Taurus and quality. I’ve handled them and they seemed OK to me. You’d have to look up reviews of the specific revolver. Even S&W revolvers are not “as good” as they were 30+ years ago in terms of finish. You might end up having to have an “action job” done on either one of them depending on how you liked the single and DA trigger pull. Valve lapping compound in the lockwork, dryfire until smooth, then clean it up and re-lube, known as the “$20 action job”.

I like Fake’s idea, but see that you can’t do that in NYC. Maybe go to another state for a short vacation ?

The reloading thing would be tough in a small apartment. i live in a 2 bedroom duplex, and have to set up and then tear down every time I do it on the kitchen table. Plus storage of powder, bullets, primers, etc. in limited space (I reload for several firearms).

Funny story, when I lived in Pocatello, Idaho, we would host Japanese judoka to come and train with us. Only one of them had no interest in shooting, the rest were like “when can we go shoot your AK-47 again !”.

16

[QUOTE=Devil;2875045]When you can’t carry concealed, how on Earth do you protect your Jew gold?[/QUOTE]

It’s in his secret Rothschild bank account, silly…

17

[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2875049]Okay,

Handgun only for now.

Do you have children? If not, I’d not concern myself with having to keep unloaded and locked up. Seriously. If you’re going to have to store ammo and firearm separately, a wheel gun will require purchase and practice with a speed loader.[/quote]

no kids, but it’s actually a requirement of the law that i do so. seriously. also the wife.

definitely would buy a speed loader for a revolver. good point.

Do you have a budget constraint? With tools, you want to buy the best you can afford and take care of it. If it has added value as a hobby, you may be wanting to spend more than if it’s for defense only.

i make decent coin and am usually willing to pay more for a quality product. that being said, it might be tough to spend over $800 on this, but that could be flexible up to $1200 or so if i had good reasons. i do have to buy a gun safe as well, so there’s that cost to consider.

I didn’t read the laws you linked. Are there draconian limits on ammunition purchase?
not that i saw but i am only allowed to buy ammunition i the caliber of the gun i have registered. i have no idea if that means that i can’t get 38 special rounds for a .357, that would be really dumb, but nothing surprises me at this point.

All of these are legitimate points to consider.

Me? I like a big boom but also don’t want to be risking killing the neighbor next door. Nor do I want the SOB living through the encounter to run me through the legal system were he able to survive, saying he’d thrown up his hands and yelled “don’t shoot”. So what if I emptied into center mass?

sounds like reasonable concerns. if it matters my building is pre-war with thick plaster walls with a ton of lathe and brick behind them, so it’s not like modern sheetrock crap. also i have a steel fire door as my front door.

18

[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2875047]Devils speaks the truth here. Except Rugers are best revolvers imho. They are built stronger than any other production gun.
My two favorite pistols are my 1911 and My Ruger 454 Super Redhawk. You never know when you are gunna get mugged by a grizzly in Fl. You gotta be ready.
I also like my cz 75.[/QUOTE]

My wife loves her Ruger LCR. I got a big glow in the dark white bead to replace the factory front sight. It’s awesome, don’t even have to use the rear notch, just put that white bead in the center mass and start shooting.

I load up those Speer 148 gr. wadcutters with a few grains of Trail Boss by the dozens for her (she helps), so practice is super-cheap.

19

If you get a revolver, get one with at least a 4" barrel. A snubby isn’t much fun for general shooting. As you won’t be carrying concealed, it won’t matter.

20

Since this is a protect the family and homestead type of situation, you may want to consider firearms other than handguns. If someone is forcing entry into your home, they might be wearing body armor.

So a Mossberg 500 with pistol grips, a bullpup style .223 rifle, if you can stomach the design, and don’t mind paying the premium. For a handgun, a .357 magnum revolver (the Sig .357 round might also do the job, at least, that’s what it was designed for).