This makes you sound like an elitist prick.
Yes it is, because it’s false on its face.
Prove people can fight without their legs? Here.
Yes, we all know that’s why you’re dying for every day. It’s kind of lame, really. You should let that go.
You could ask a question, or for an explanation.
Instead you are trying to pick apart the thoughts of someone who has actually trained jiujitsu.
LOOK IN THE MIRROR ETC.
I’d rather deal with intellectual elitists like him than ineffectual elitists like you.
Fixed, Radford.
131,000 videos on bone breaks from heel hooks. And look, ankle break is #1.
Guess how many of these were street fights or SD situations?
[IMG2=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-size”:“full”,“src”:“https://imgur.com/9FTXSjf.jpg”}[/IMG2]
Yeah, people upload their self-defense fights to YouTube as often as they upload competition videos.
You absolute idiot.
Sure they do, Youtube is loaded with self defense fights. A brief Google search brings up over 8,000,000 videos.
Still can’t find one that ended with a heel hook. Or a news story about how a teenage girl heelhooked a large attacker until help arrived.
Maybe you can, smartypants. It would be nice to see you contribute your first martial arts/SD related post.
The percentage by skilled grapplers is likely to be lower than the competition videos.
Street vs. sport is a bullshidoka argument. Stop making it.
This isn’t a street vs. sport argument, it’s a child vs adult pain submission counterargument, for exactly the reason you just specified.
The idea that a child is going to injure/maim an adult with a heel hook in a self defense situation, especially a life or death one, is absurd.
And, people can fight without being able to walk, with no arms, no legs, or broken limbs, which is how we got here and why Goodlun is butthurt, and you are toadying.
You literally just cited a paucity of self defense street videos using heel hooks, and a preponderance of them on competition videos. That is the actual argument that just came out of your idiot mouth. That is your actual argument for saying that heel hooks are not practical on the street.
I never said they weren’t practical anywhere. Injuries/breaks happen in competition all the time because they are dangerous techniques. And we know that because of the 131,000 videos.
I said they’re not practical for the context of this thread, which is once again: “Best finishing techniques to teach my daughter for self defense BJJ”
Arguably a young person’s best “finisher” in BJJ is going to be the various sweeps, escapes, not going for uncle or trying to injure an adult’s leg as a “finisher”. And there are zero videos of that that I can find in the empirical world. Find one, and we can make the most awesome PSA for Kid’s BJJ ever, the heel hook will become the future of children’s self defense.
Cheerleading for the “can’t walk, CAN’T FIGHT” mentality is really myopic. In competition people might stop. In self defense, giving up after a break or tear can mean death.
No, you just made a stupid argument about how they don’t appear in street self-defense videos as a reason for saying they’re not practical outside of competition. That was the argument you made. If that’s not what you meant, fine, but own up.
Stop lying. Stop cheating. Stop weaseling.
I never said heel hooks weren’t practical outside of competition.
I said they are probably not very practical for a child against an adult outside of competition, and there is no evidence that children trained in BJJ have successfully done it.
Therefore, rah rahing heel hooks (a big BJJ fad I know) is one thing but in the context of this technique thread, it’s pointless and near-sighted to focus on that.
One has to wonder why all the supposed grappling experts here aren’t posting more videos of things a kid could practically use to survive an adult’s attack.
You want a better argument? Here you go, a basic technical standup is a better thing to focus train your kids than heel hooks for self defense, because that kid doesn’t want to stay on the ground for any reason.
Then why make the argument about YouTube videos at all? That’s not child-specific.
Your story doesn’t match your story. Stop lying.
There you go, Jfingaz123, wherever you are.
Train your kid to do technical standup kicks 1,000 times.
Done.
To show the huge disparity between what’s practical between similar weight class/aged competitors, high percentage, bone breaks vs hyperextension damage (jpp’s “velcro”)
and,
What a child needs to survive a physical assault from a large adult, which is the context of this thread.
Goodlun’s assertion about “can’t walk, can’t fight!” isn’t just untrue for fights in general (because people do fight with broken bones), it’s bad advice for kids because it suggests offense is going to win. Sorry, kids are not out there defeating grown adults with BJJ hooks, unless someone shows me.
So I’ll stick with technical standup kicks going forward as my BJJ self defense go-to finisher for kids. Get up, kick and run. No kid is going to injure an adult’s leg with a hook, but a good kick to the shins and running away is a time honored self defense classic.
YouTube videos are not child-specific. If that was your argument, it is a damned poor one.
Its not very sporting to reply to a banned person:
But there are a ton of red hearings by W. Rabbit.
- This thread has never been about a child vs grown man.
See typical understanding of what “of age” means, also see that the OP didn’t want to drag this into Women vs Men, not children vs men - Anyone can look all over the site for the problems with Street vs Sport arguments, even in this thread it was pointed out multiple times that leg locks work in fights despite Wrabbit trying to act like we are only talking about BJJ competition.
- Absolutely if someone can’t walk they can’t fight, in the context of Self Defense where they have to engage you as you retreat to fight.
- Of all the breaking techniques a heel hook takes the least amount of strength to be effective for breaking. It is the most effective breaking techniques for someone with a strength disparity to use.
- No one here has advocated heelhooks as the primary focus, ie no one is saying you should dive for them, do a roll or give up superior position for them.
- Heelhooks are considered “dangerous” for the person having them applied not the person applying them. The fact that they are dangerous is what makes them effective.
- They are not so dangerous that they can’t be trained alive, as they often are. A few gyms train teenagers in their use. Typically with the straight ankle lock being the primary leg lock being trained.
Its fairly easy to transition from a straight ankle lock game to a heelhook game. - Important, heelhook defense is largely technical. Where as the defense to a lot of other locks and chokes is somewhat instinctual. The wrong escape or defense to a heelhook oftentimes leads to damage of the defender.
Heelhooks are not panacea of course everyone here knows that.
The first thing said was that they need to learn to grapple.
However heel hooks are effective against bigger stronger people. In a fight or self defense situation you might not dictate where you end up. So you need be able to finish from anywhere. Heelhook is oftentimes a great way to finish from a number of positions including ones that started off as a bad position.
Wrabbit is not banned at the moment. He’s switched avatars as he knows it’s imminent.
Wow, you went there. OK, BQ mode engaged.
Not according to the OP, according to him that’s exactly what the thread is about.
You’re only half right. The thread is definitely about child vs adult. Go read post #1\
Not a sport vs street argument.
Bullshit. You can strangle someone just fine without working legs.
Ah, so we ARE talking about bone breaks now. Thanks for catching up. Wonderful theory, but there’s no evidence it is effective for children to use as a finishing submission against adults in SD.
Actually, you you been advocating nothing but heel hooks for many posts now, and went on to trumpet the “can’t walk, can’t fight” philosophy which I think is unwise.
Kids with heel hooks are not dangerous to adults, so where’d you get that “fact”. Where are all the kids doing this?
Yeah that’s great for sparring with teenagers and all, but we’re talking about the OP, right? You are all over the place now.
Not in this case, the OP:
I’ve decided that I’d like to specialize in 1-2 submission types that I can teach my daughter when she’s of age (now only 2 years old) for her self defense if she is ever attacked by a man (usually sexual).
Sure looks like a child vs man thread to me. Why don’t you move on to another technique like I did.