Exactly. On the old bs.net forum, we had epic discussions with white boys who were fascinated with dantien/hara stuff.
I’ve watched Chen Z. videos. He’s an excellent grappler on the standup side of things.
Dude has serious combative attitude. He didn’t get that just doing forms for his health.
That’s because it’s fascinating stuff.
Try this, put three fingers three inches above your navel, and make the sound “TZZT”.
Feel that? Yes you do.
No thanks. I’ll leave the mysteries of chi/ki to others, and read and watch what guys like Chen ZiQiang 陳自強 do and say.
They do exactly what I just recommended you try. It’s not a mystery, it’s something you’ll be able to feel immediately because of how the body works.
Are you suggesting Chen Ziqiang doesn’t teach this? LOL. It’s a central tenet of TC.
No idea, have you ever trained with him?
I’m sure they have a whole system for teaching.
I’ve trained in both Chen and Yang schools but this is a really basic stupid thing I thought I’d share that connects a really obvious Tai Chi mechanic to some really neat TC concepts that have been mythologized, but have really down to earth benefits associated with time and training, some of which are pretty ribald, which I find hilarious but useful going into old age.
But not with Chen Z.
Right
I’d like to see video of him grappling versus peer-level grapplers. Most of his stuff is versus far less skilled students.
But he’s getting older, and we know what that does.
Ever seen any video of him as a young man? As in in his prime.
Fu style Bagua incorporates some of the best TC material I think you’re referring to, the up close and personal.
Which is funny because people try to convince me this isn’t TC, when it is, because they’re so stupid.
Gene Ching shared this video a few years back. Taken with the little navel thing I mentioned you can map out this fist set into a really neat visual model that lines up nicely with Judo physics. Something on my back burner, in fact, to actually plot this out in 3D.
Isnt bagua tai chi? I’ve seen many variants which are identical.
The Kung fu school I used to train at competed in BJJ tournaments and kickboxing tournaments. When I first started training there you started learning the Chen Pan Ling 99 form. Then on the weekends, people who wanted to compete in San Da showed up for sparring, bag work, focus mits, and stuff like that. Some people just wanted to learn the forms and not fight.
So you have people coming out of that school with legit fight records and doing well. You also had people who couldn’t fight at all and just like to do forms while burning incense and speaking broken Chinese to each other while wearing pajamas.
Both coming from a legit school with legit lineage.
I’d wager its because internal styles like Tai Chi and Chun dont require much physically from their practitioners.
Not really. They seem to be kinda mixed together in some lineages – so it makes sense that some variants seem identical. But the written history of the styles points to the conclusion that one didn’t originate from the other, even though there could be some influences. Chen village is in Henan, about 600~700 kilometres from where the creator of Baguazhang was born, in Wen’an county, Hebei province. These are neighboring provinces, though, so maybe Taijiquan’s influence could have reached him.
Anyway, TJQ and Bagua do have a lot of similar aspects. They’re both considered the most illustrative examples of internal kungfu (along with Xingyiquan), both are based on taoist ideas and both seem to focus on grappling – I might be mistaken about this, but I firmly believe it.
I found Bagua and Taiji to be similar in application. Xingi, I found to be like Taiji but more focused. Like Taiji with a dash of crane.
Yeah, I think you’re right. Maybe there’s no real connection, but some stuff in Xingyiquan do remind me of Fujian White Crane.
About the focus, one of my teachers once told me the same thing, kinda. She said something like “if it took you ten years to make taijiquan effective in combat, it would take just one to do the same with xingyiquan”. She wasn’t criticizing TJQ – just pointing out how xingyi is more direct.
Its because Taiji slow introduces you to Erlang where’s Xingi is like “ERLANG SMASH!!!”
That depends.
What do you you know about Crystal Fist Boxing?
Nice, is that from a movie?
Yes, 庄陈力 AKA Billy Chong.
In my experience, Tai Chi is a throwing, off balancing art, and XingYi is a striking art. It does have some throws, but it is more directly related to kickboxing while Tai Chi is more directly related to wrestling.
Why do you always post stuff from movies? Can you not find live force on force examples from tournaments or training?
I’ve posted stuff of Chen Ziquang that was alive, if not really overmatched.
That was on the old forums,though. Even some of him beating shit out of some dudes at the Chen village training center in China.
My point is, movie stuff is movie stuff. It’s like posting Krav Maga stunts.