Royce needs steriods. The sport does not.
Nope.
Ibid.
On the whole “Position before submission isn’t important thing…”
There’s a guy in my BJJ club who used to do Catch. Whenever he ends up in someone’s guard, he usually goes for a keylock under this philosophy.
So far, I believe it has yet to yield results other than him getting swept or arm triangled.
I’m pretty sure Catch Wrestling is the past of grappling, not it’s future.
This is what happens to people that espouse concepts that seem logical upon first glance, but really are based upon flawed assumptions that have no basis in reality.
Good find, Kagan. Being crazy instead of disingenuous is always a good excuse for retarded behavior.
Agreed, jnp…
???
FWIW, I’m not a grappler nor am I affiliated with Catch Wrestling or Traditional Wing Chun, nor have I ever trained with Victor or been to his school. I make no claims or vouching for him other than I’ve met and talked with him. He is a real person and teaches his version of TWC/Catch in Brooklyn. Victor is a big boy and can speak for himself in this thread.
Tell me Victor: What’s it like to practise the two most maligned styles on the planet? Up until now, I only imagined people like you existed in jokes. When one thinks of cross-training, they don’t normally choose to merge the bitter pseudo-science with an inbred golem of gimmick moves designed to work on untrained carnival patrons and livestock. Did you do this and some sort of baroque statement about martial arts, or are you naturally inefficient? Did you sell your car to buy a unicycle? Do you make three lefts to turn right?
No matter the answer, you’re obviously going to be a fountain of technical amusement.
Is this something from wing chun or catch? I ask because the idea is a cross between horrid anti-grappling nonsense and bullshit pain compliance. Using full elbow strikes is asking to be triangled, and pushing the elbow into the thigh is something BJJ white belts learn not to bother with within a couple months.
The first step to opening and passing the closed guard is to stop pretending it doesn’t exist.
Ok then. I don’t think we’re arguing anymore.
Edit: I’ll be damned, you woke up Shuma.
I’m a beginner who is in no way even moderately skilled, but I’ve been shown this method of opening the guard (among a number of others). It totally depends on the person in terms of how well it works. There are some guys who will howl like you’ve stabbed them with a hot knife and others who won’t do anything at best and will smile while throwing on a triangle at worst. I have only ever tried pushing my elbow into that spot, not striking it over and over, but I have wondered what would happen if I were a prick and tried it someday.
As for the idea of a BJ J flow chart that demands guys look for mount before they look for a sub, I feel like there should be some way to gather statistics on this. That is, how many fights (you’d have to determine what form of competition counts as a fight for the study) have a primarily BJJ guy working to get into the mount from side control before they try a sub vs. the “other?” styles that would go for subs from side control. In a totally statistically useless case, I can think of more times that Matt Hughes has gone for a straight arm bar/Kimura/V-lock from side control than I can think of a “BJJ guy” doing the same. In this totally anecdotal useless example, my memory tells me that BJJ guys seem pretty focused on getting mount.
For what it’s worth.
Paulson trained in Shooto which has some Catch in it.
My experience with CSW (I loved it but…) was that it is MMA grappling and puts more emphasis on fighting for holds not that you don’t get it in BJJ just a different emphasis.
Also the conditioning in it was insane, which is why I have stopped as my back was in too much pain.
Based on your style field you’re obviously incapable of making good decisions yourself and I suggest you let others do it for you.
I’ll back up his statement by citing the last catch wrestler I rolled with. He was incapable of opening closed guard, had no posture but half-decent base compared to a white belt, and essentially got triangled over and over. After the class was over he went outside and started chain-smoking. I could pull up a detailed account from ancient IM logs but I was a white belt at the time and was not impressed.
His girlfriend did aikijujitsu and tried to poke people behind the ears from under mount, but somehow I remember her being harder to submit.
It really depends upon the style of the BJJ player whether or not he attempts a lot of submissions from side control. Some do, some don’t. Everyone has their own style, and whether they prefer to finish from side control, mount, back mount, or even guard if they are strong there. BJJ in MMA tends to gravitate toward the mount and back these days, as the ruleset has shifted away from allowing knees to the head on the ground. There’s less reason to stay in side control or north south because of that.
I really shouldn’t have to explain this to people who ostensibly have the capability of thinking critically.
Edit: Ironically (considering the topic at hand), mount offers better control than side control in MMA.
Aikdio FTW!!!
I know I replied to your post, but the question was posed to VP.
If he is teaching grappling, I’d like to see it in action.
Surely if his style is legit, at least one of his students must compete?
:laughing6 I’m going to be laughing at this for a month.
I’ve been triangled doing this, but it’s also worked. I see it as the spinning backfist of grappling; it works as long as you almost never do it.
*where’s that subscribe to thread button…ah fuckit.
Lemme guess…it worked when you rolled with white belts…
Victor.
You teach grappling.
And you don’t know how to elbow escape.
Has Vic been raising hell in the big Tony Cecchine Catch thread? Every time I try to view it Firefox crashes because Victor Parlati tried to keylock it from under mount.
Sometimes I try to put myself in the mind of a Catch wrestler and imagine what sort of twisted, American McGee-esqe vision they have of the guard, and it’s a terrible place of swirling vortexes and trying to break people’s necks with a rear naked choke applied to the forehead.
hey I don’t think anyone’s asked this yet but how long you been training Victor?
^ It’s been asked a couple of times, but hasn’t been answered.