My little brother got roughed up at school by some football players and his school has had violence problems (unarmed and knives). He wants to learn martial arts for self defense and has asked me to suggest some for him to look into. I don’t want to troll but I am worried about my little brother. He is short but stocky. So, I have come to the experts to ask for your advice.
Which martial arts would you suggest for practical self defense?
In our area are; Aikido, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Goju-ryu Karate, Hapkido, Hung Gar Kung Fu, Jow Gar Kung Fu, Judo, Kickboxing, Kyokushin Karate, Muay Thai, MMA, Shotokan Karate and Wing Chun.
If he can get on the wrestling team, then he can have the wrestlers rough up the football players if they try any bullshit.
in australia
Hi
We live in Australia and we don’t have wrestling teams in our schools like you do in the states. Oh and by footballers, I mean rugby league players:)
If he has to fight a team I wouldn’t really advise wrestling. Ofcourse I personally just don’t like being on the ground where malicious nikes don’t have to move far to hurt me. Why don’t you just show him some boxing? Beat the hell out of him until he gets better like any big brother should.
[QUOTE=Anarchy rising;2669982]
In our area are; Aikido, Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Goju-ryu Karate, Hapkido, Hung Gar Kung Fu, Jow Gar Kung Fu, Judo, Kickboxing, Kyokushin Karate, Muay Thai, MMA, Shotokan Karate and Wing Chun.[/QUOTE]
Let him take a trial class with these schools and see what he likes to do.
Best Self-Defense is not to be there, especially when knives are involved, but that can be difficult in a school.
Problem is that there exist “realistic” weapon arts (Kali-Escrima-Arnis and La Canne de Combat), but there you learn to “die a little less often”, meaning that you will have an understanding of vulnerable targets on the body (yours and your opponents) and skills to counter weapons with weapons.
One problem with weapons is that how shorter they become, how more difficult it’s to counter them with identical weapons and knives are the most difficult ones of them all.
The second problem is the legal remifications about being cought in a knife fight, because it would be considered as an act of agression by law, even if you only would be “defending” yourself.
The third problem is that I’m talking about knife vs knife in the above cases, empty hand vs knife means “Run, Forrest Run!”, because even with training surviving a knife attack would be very, very difficult and very, very, very bloody.
Can he talk with a teacher or school counselor about the fact that there are knives on the schoolgrounds?
Rene has covered the armed aspects perfectly but I’d like to give some more input on the “self-defense against Rugby players”: If they are in a group, there is little that can be done - at least there is no quick and dirty way to become proficient withhin the minute.
Whatever arts your brother wants to train will still need quite a lot of time until he will be proficient to beat someone who has been in fights. Bullies tend to be prepared and willing to beat on someone.
A combination of kickboxing, boxing and some grappling art (be it Judo, BJJ, Sambo etc.) is good but it will nevertheless take quite a while until he will be able to defend himself. And even then a self-defense situation is different from the gym (usually).
It all also depends on how talented and how dedicated your brother is.
Just my two cents
[QUOTE=jedtex88;2669986]If he has to fight a team I wouldn’t really advise wrestling. Ofcourse I personally just don’t like being on the ground where malicious nikes don’t have to move far to hurt me. [/QUOTE]
A large part of learning to wrestle is learning how to not get taken to the ground and held there, but if wrestling is not available then it’s a moot point.
I still stand by my point that strength in numbers is the best way of dealing with a group of people.
What Zendo said + joining an australian rules football team. This way he will have skills and friends for beating the rugby players.
Rene’s bolded list of styles looks pretty good. Really what your little bro needs is a lot of live, hard sparring to train up in any style - go to trial classes that promise sparring. When you watch and ask questions, look for these 3 factors:
-
How often they spar:
Your little bro will need a high frequency of light sparring and some days of heavy sparring. Light to see if some techniques will work, heavy to see how well he executes under real pressure. He should be sparring at least 3 times a week to really start internalizing what does and does not work. -
How protected they spar:
Overly protected sparring is detrimental - get a place that will condition him to take hits without bitching out. For example - if they wear helmets all the time, your little bro won’t know what to do when he gets smashed on the forehead in a real fight. Even though knuckles to the crown of the head isn’t a debilitating hit, he might freak out and lose because of improper training. Don’t even consider if they use chest protectors. Conditioning, conditioning, conditioning. General rule should be protect just enough to keep moderately safe. -
How alive they spar:
At a regular frequency, he should be throwing down 90% full-contact with shin guards, mouth guard, cup, and 16 oz gloves. Perhaps once every other month. The more your little bro fights people who can and do beat the shit out of him (in a manner from which he can recover and still train a week later), the better he’ll be in defending himself from real attacks.
Bottom line - find a place where your little bro can get beaten up safely. What doesn’t kill/maim/permanently injure him should make him stronger.
[QUOTE=DCS;2670131]What Zendo said + joining an australian rules football team. This way he will have skills and friends for beating the rugby players.[/QUOTE]
Wouldn’t rugby union have the biggest blokes, or do you think aussie rule’s 18 vs union’s 15 would tip the balance? Serious answer listen to zendokan
A lot of people discount boxing for self defense. It is very easy to find a good gym, and if you are worried about ground game, join school wrestling. Although boxing isnt as flashy as other TDM’s, it has a lot of sparring, so you will find out pretty fast how good you are, and you will learn faster too. Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.
Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.
Man, this is my new motto. You should put it on T-shirts.
[QUOTE=50;2670190]A lot of people discount boxing for self defense. It is very easy to find a good gym, and if you are worried about ground game, join school wrestling. Although boxing isnt as flashy as other TDM’s, it has a lot of sparring, so you will find out pretty fast how good you are, and you will learn faster too. Everyone has a plan until they get hit in the mouth.[/QUOTE]
^^^This. Boxing, though not as well rounded, does specialize in the thing most done in out-of-gym fights. Try to punch each other. I’d rather have a boxer than anyone, if I’m forced to fight w/ someone by my side.
It’s a good idea to generally keep one’s feet on the ground in an SD situation…so there’s not as much utilitarian benefit lost as one might expect.
Were he to also take BJJ, he’d be gaining experience throwing hands (sparring is key, to str33t translation), and also a sense of positional control, and subs/counters.
Not that there’s much you can do if the entire Rugby team is picking on you. Rugby is rough and tumble in the extreme, and those guys generally aren’t small men. Taking up boxing and possibly bjj would make him much less fun to pick on, assuming he’s getting sparring time in.
[QUOTE=syberia;2670191]Man, this is my new motto. You should put it on T-shirts.[/QUOTE]
It’s a quote from Mike Tyson.
For the military, the phrase is “No Plan survives Contact” [with the enemy]. it’s basically a comment from Napoleon.
[QUOTE=Eddie Hardon;2670241]It’s a quote from Mike Tyson.
For the military, the phrase is “No Plan survives Contact” [with the enemy]. it’s basically a comment from Napoleon.[/QUOTE]
I didn’t know the quote originated from Tyson, and i haven’t heard that particular incarnation, but I’ve heard the saying before.
And I know the feeling intimately.
[QUOTE=Eddie Hardon;2670241]It’s a quote from Mike Tyson.
For the military, the phrase is “No Plan survives Contact” [with the enemy]. it’s basically a comment from Napoleon.[/QUOTE]
Its actually Helmuth von Moltke.
Joe Louis said ‘Every fighter has a plan until they get hit’, but its misattributed to Tyson.
your brothers problem isnt gonna be solved by taking up boxing, fyi. in fact i imagine that if he is being continually bullied by the high school league team and they find out hes taken up a martial art to defend himself, hes gonna get the shit kicked out of him. there is no self defense that will let you beat up a forward pack, except perhaps a shotgun. youre better off teaching him to not be a target.
or just leave australia cos it sucks 
[QUOTE=judoka_uk;2670303]Its actually Helmuth von Moltke.
Joe Louis said ‘Every fighter has a plan until they get hit’, but its misattributed to Tyson.[/QUOTE]
I thought it was Mike Tyson. Did you know when Joe Louis started boxing, he hid his boxing gloves in a violin case so his mother didn’t find out
[QUOTE=Alex;2670333]your brothers problem isnt gonna be solved by taking up boxing, fyi. in fact i imagine that if he is being continually bullied by the high school league team and they find out hes taken up a martial art to defend himself, hes gonna get the shit kicked out of him. there is no self defense that will let you beat up a forward pack, except perhaps a shotgun. youre better off teaching him to not be a target.
or just leave australia cos it sucks :p[/QUOTE]
I would expect someone from Tasmania to say something like that.
To the OP Alex is right, nothing he does at least in the short term is going to help him in this kind of situation but that said, training in one of the alive arts Boxing, Judo, BJJ MT etc is going to naturally give him confidence and make him less of a target. Unless he is the kind that likes to run his mouth off but in training once he gets dropped, hit, submitted a few times he will probably get some humility anyway.
Another plus is he will get a group of real friends that will gladly help him out, even if its just support if he is ever in trouble.
There is a video on Aliveness by Matt Thornton in this thread, it would be worth watching to give you a good perspective on Martial Arts training.
I played collegiate rugby for 4 years and sports my whole life. Nothing your brother does at this point is going to help other than finding mr. Miagi and having him tell the teams coach, “no picking on the kid until the tournament”!
He needs to do whatever he can to stay away from the rugby team. My experience with rugby players is that they(we) are the type who don’t shy away from violent contact, they will be good at takedowns, and they will ruck and maul and enjoy it.
They have probably been doing this for years and training in an alive manner that would make this site proud. Your brothers shirt term training will not make any difference against the team. On an individual basis, boxing will probably be his best bet.
Only other options: buy a mouthpiece and some boots. How big is he? Pack or wing? Maybe the team needs a hooker.