Hi everyone
Why so many of u hate WC so much?
This is one of the most effective, great MAs!
Any good reason?
Neither fear nor worry. Having peeps hit your fist, knee & elbow … repeatedly no less … with their head is a common problem with kickboxers. John
Where’s Jay ?
According to an Email I rec’d a few days ago … jay’s on the Dragon List Forum busily rubbishing me and attempting to recruit new members to his cause … the Internet Slaughter of me :tongue5:
Seems poor jay ran out of playmates on the Tung-Fu Forum … several of those peeps showed up for my 4/24/05 Seminar … they showed up, they saw & they felt. They didn’t entertain any of jay’s lying crap after that. The “proof” is in experieincing.
Same peeps plus some others are setting it up for me to fly over there again and do a seminar on the Tid Sin Kuen. Should be good for them and fun as well. John
Have you got any idea why this guy is stalking you like this? Where did it all start?
Sure, short answer:
Steven Richards, a Friend of mine, and widely recognized as an accomplished MA, and I were posting on a forum dedicated primarily to Southern Praying Mantis.
One day, jay & geordiesteve make an appearance and soon begin a shit slinging campaign. Richards actually set it up so that jay could meet with his current Sifu, Eddie Berry.
It is/was Eddie Berry selectively feeding jay & Kwan information in order to undermine Richards that was the original “flash point” in this matter. Berry knew that I had met with his Grandmaster, Lee-Lien, had made a great impression on him, and was preparing to bring the LYS Pai system back into America by way of two Chinese Organizations of which I am a member … the only non-Chinese to be as such.
Eddie felt his status - standing - rank slipping away and through jay & Kwan ran a long, dirty, lie filled campaign against Steven Richards and then myself in order to take us down … down to Berry’s level. Berry was/is none too bright as he was going to enjoy a renewed and enlarged status - standing within the greater, global, Chinese MA community. I had/have the ability to make that happen. He cut his own nose off to spite his face.
I finally had enough of the Internet BS … openly & publicly challenged jay & 3 others to show up at the Bradford, UK, 4/24/05 Seminar and personally take me on in front of the Seminar attendees. There were 15 of them, many had video cameras and none were or are my students in any sense of the word. All 4 members of the LYS Pai backed down … in public.
To this day, jay & Kwan continue to lie, hide, and lie some more. Lee-Lien, the one they recognize as their Grandmaster has virtually no idea of the crap jay & Kwan have done under the direction of Eddie Berry. I know this by way of personal Email correspondence with Lee-Lien’s Wife, Ellie.
Lee-Lien rated my hands as “good” … understood and appreciated the documentation I provided to him in person regarding my standing - status within the two largest, oldest, and most powerful Chinese global societies. He would never agree to the shit slinging jay & Kwan engaged in and continue to engage in and he damned sure wouldn’t back getting into a pissing contest with me. Unlike jay & Kwan … Lee understand what my being a Blood Oath Brother means.
In all fairness to both jay & Kwan, I think their original intentions were decent. They were supporting their Sifu and relying on him for correct information. Whatever the nature of said information both jay & Kwan crossed way over the line and repeatedly spoke out of turn. They quickly began taking delight in spreading BS and it then became “personal” with me.
In the past I have made the offer to either “Show up and put up … or STFU … or meet with me in person to go out for a meal, talk through our differences in the past and leave the matter in the past.”
What you have seen on Bullshido in indicative of their choice in the matter. So be it.
The thing that really pisses me off is that NONE of this ever had to happen. The PROPER way … the TRADITIONAL way would have been for Steven, Eddie, Lee-Lien and myself to have met at a neutral place and over a meal discuss the issues in a rational, Adult fashion. Instead, Eddie chose the low road.
jay & Kwan are now boxed in with the option of backing down, yet again, on the Internet no less, or continuing to play “pus pocket” by moving to a different place whenever they are squeezed out of another. You see their choice and long ago it became just that … their choice. John
I just want to say that I AM a soldier, have been injured in “combat”, and I think grond is/was being a fucking douchebag, and Dr. Tzun Zu wasn’t helping anything by enforcing the ignorant trouncing of the language.
ps- There are ankle props/foot sweeps in Grecco.
And to think, I only started reading this thread to figure out why the hell people were dropping out of the MD Throwdown in relation to it…
You hit on several topics in rapid fashion … I have no idea what you are saying and specifically, about what. Would you be so kind as to expand on each of your points? C’ya at the MD TD!! John
I had a look around on the Dragon List Forum. Couldn’t see any posts by ‘Tao Yin Lee’ since the beginning of August. I did notice that he was signing himself as ‘John’ though.
He’s fond of being known as “Lam Tong Long” … “jay cummins” … “J” … “jay” or “Jay” and most recently as “Tao Yin Lee” & “John” … guy changes names like most people change their socks. John
:new_sleep
you can believe jackanory’s story or not… not really bothered.
The truth is steve richards (jacks video sifu) appointed HIMSELF co inheritor of the system, behind lee liens back. (this is still on his website… the co-inheritor bit)
We went to liverpool, met him and showed copies of steve richards website. We also showed him one of steve’s book, which he never showed to lee lien, in which he said Lee lien was the founder of hop gar mantis (which only exists on paper).
Long story short, GM Lee Lien was pissed off and threw steve (hence jack as well) out of the style.
Ask youself, if someone did officially dissassociate themselves… WHY CONSTANTLY USE THE PICTURES TO PROVE THEY DO SPM? If jack has got 30+ years of SPM, then why constantly use pictures of ONE single meeting they had last summer… ?
Also jack claims we are newbies/guys who dont study LYS SPM/ no one of any importance… then how come they were the ones (steve being a so called ‘co-inheritor’ an all) who were thrown out of LYS pai, and we were not just dissmissed out of hand?
Like i said before… not really bothered if you believe jack or me… but i thought you should know the other side of the story…
Of course it bothers you Kwan. That’s why you and jay continually attempt to do a hatchet job on me … always on the Internet … never face to face.
BTW Forum Readers, this is the typical Kwan and jay exit strategy … they get jammed because they lie so much and can’t back up anything and if/when caught they rubbish the place they were using to engage in Internet warfare. They always start off with a declaration of “We don’t care what people think.”
The truth is steve richards (jacks video sifu) appointed HIMSELF co inheritor of the system, behind lee liens back. (this is still on his website… the co-inheritor bit)
Steven was looking to bale out of SPM all together and focus exclusively on promoting his Tibetan Art … the one he learned from Ken Liu … now go ahead and trash talk Ken … I dare you. Eddie just got nervous and pulled the trigger too soon. If he had set up a meeting, which is the TRADITIONAL way he would have found himself sitting in a good place. Instead, the gutless loser set you and jay loose. Bad mistake on many accounts. Just look at the damage you’re doing to the now defunct LYS Pai on Bullshido.
Long story short, GM Lee Lien was pissed off and threw steve (hence jack as well) out of the style.
That should read “Long list of lies cut short …” Never been able to produce the letter of disassociation like you said you would … months ago. We realize you don’t own it as you are no one … but that hardly accounts for your not being able to produce a copy of it for all to see … you know … bearing Lee-Lien’s signature and chop.
Ask youself, if someone did officially dissassociate themselves… WHY CONSTANTLY USE THE PICTURES TO PROVE THEY DO SPM? If jack has got 30+ years of SPM, then why constantly use pictures of ONE single meeting they had last summer… ?
Yet more lies but if my using the pictures is what is bothering you I will give you the answer. I do it because it pisses off you, jay and Berry. I do it because I can prove that Lee-Lien himself taught me the Roads … in his own backyard. I do it because it proves that Lee-Lien himself declared me his US Rep. I do it because I can and you CAN’T. You have never been able to produce any proof that you have ever even met Lee-Lien much less been personally taught by him. Not a single still photo much less a DVD. BTW, that was a hysterically funny excuse you gave for not having any photo proof.
The bottom line is you and jay continue to disrespect the very one you call Grandmaster each and every time you attack me (verbally as you both know I would kick your asses with no problems at all). I was “good” enough for him and you continually attempt to say otherwise. Not particularly bright of you guys contradicting your own Grandmaster.
Also jack claims we are newbies/guys who dont study LYS SPM/ no one of any importance… then how come they were the ones (steve being a so called ‘co-inheritor’ an all) who were thrown out of LYS pai, and we were not just dissmissed out of hand?
Give it up, Kwan. You can’t produce any proof either of us was “thrown” out and we have both kept the Emails from Ellie that prove otherwise. BTW, you and jay have, once again, done a great job of destroying your own credibility. Thanks guys, in a fight you two are the best anyone could hope to have as an opponent.
Like i said before… not really bothered if you believe jack or me… but i thought you should know the other side of the story…
That’s the crux of the whole matter, Kwan. You and jay just aren’t credible.
Enough of the smoke & mirrors … where’s Paul’s recant of his statement wherein he says jay has about 4 years with him instead of the 12 jay claims?
Where is the proof that jay had 15 Professional Boxing Matches?
Where are the names of “all” those guys from various systems - styles you claimed to have beaten in order to remain UNDEFEATED in sparring?
Let me help you out, Kwan, as you are drowning fast. In order to improve in any activity that is adversarial or competition based, you MUST go against peeps better than you. No one improves their Chess Game by playing against people they can beat in a handful of moves. No one becomes an accomplished Boxer by sparring with bipedal punching bags. No one becomes stronger by lifiting weights below their potential. In order to grow, to improve, you must undergo an adaptive phase and it’s rather long in duration … it continues until you reach your maximum potential as determined primarily by genetics.
When forced to continually confront significant adversity the Human Condition will adapt, change, grow, improve in order to meet the challenge. That’s how we are as creatures. Look at the typical couch spud vs. the guy who works out in some fashion on a regular basis. It’s that obvious.
Undefeated in sparring means you have never put yourself on the line against much of any thing. You cannot improve beyond not being much of any thing taking that track. No pain … no gain.
Any time you and jay tire of getting publicly humiliated by being drawn out and shown to be liars and jerks just let me know. I’ll be on your side of the pond in October as things are shaping up. Yum cha or gong sau … your choice and no one ever has to ask twice. John
The incessant whining makes baby Jesus cry. Put up or shut up.
This thread should be dipped in bronze. Everytime I log in, its guaranteed entertainment.
Geordie & Friends: I don’t know if JFS has the real Kung Fu and frankly couldn’t care less who his sifu was. We will soon find out if he can really fight and that is what matters. Your attempts to discredit him seem to be solely based on lineage arguments and association politics. Craptastic at best. On top of that you guys have yet to offer up any proof. If you have a letter, then scan it. Or show us a site or video where we can see he was booted by the eternal grandmaster or whoever.
And for fucks sake stop dodging the questions about your fighting background. Did you or Tao fight in 15 professional boxing matches or not? What is the deal with the undefeated sparring claim? Did you actually fight people from other styles (BJJ/MT/MMA/etc…) or was it just “friendly sparring?” How about throwing in the names of some people that you have fought or some way for us to verify the fights such as video or sanctioning bodies and fight dates.
Also since you guys claim to have the “real” Kung Fun ™ how about at least posting up some videos of you guys sparring or fighting. We will see Jack in a few weeks and if you guys are willing to waste everyones time with this lineage shit then lets at least see what makes you guys so much better.
And no I don’t know JFS but lineage wars are the dumbest thing I have seen yet.
As far as I can see it’s all over, as long as Geordie dodges the “15 professional fights” question.
IIRC, it’s Jay who is supposed to have had those fights. It’s also Jay who claimed 12 years Wing Chun under Paul O’Neal, when Paul said he’d studied 3-4 years.
HAHAHAHA…
as far as im concerned, yes jay has had 16 professional fights… jack got it wrong with 15…
yes ive sparred with mma guys, muay thai, choi lee fut and TKD, but they were all during training…
I also said Ive never been PANNED during sparring… guess the translation for jack isn’t the same lol…
Now jack… why do you enjoy dragging people into this stupid linegae war crap onto the internet??? i mean you constantly ask for eddie, ming and eddie… and now your dragging steve richards tibetan roar teacher, Kenny Lui, who is also our friend… Don’t bother mate cos outside of the internet, you could be making things worse for steve…
Details please.
sorry… i don’t have the details…Im not jay…
Then go and ask him, or clarify the discrepancy between what your WC sifu said and what you have claimed.
Everybody is more than a little bored with this now.