The gossip about misunderstanding Tom Fox isn't particularly interesting.

[1bad65]

I first encountered Tom and Sandra Fox on the Coda Scott threads. They were huge treads, so I never did read every post, but I did get an idea of what Tom’s role in it was. He was from the same area as Coda so he was often up-front on the issue. He was one of the guys who sat on the panel that evaluated Coda’s skills. He seemed like a good enough guy, and he seemed honest about Coda and his abilties.

The next time I ran into them was totally different. This was on the Kung-Fu Magazine (KFM) forums. Initially only Sandra Fox was posting. As she used a different username (FungFu2u2) than she did on Bullshido, I did not know it was her. She was defending Rudy and JFS alot. As I was staying on Rudy constantly, we often clashed. I found out it was her when I was challenged to a cage match by her: http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=782796&postcount=833
After humoring her and asking specifics, she let it be known she was Sandra Fox. Upon me informing her that unlike Omar I do not make dates to fight women, she offered up Tom instead:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=785695&postcount=906
Tom still denies this. When asked why she was defending Rudy and attacking Anthony, Sandra responded it was because Anthony was “a fat ass”

Around the time of the Anthony-Rudy fight, a poster using the username of ‘kidcompton’ showed up on Rudy’s board. He listed his real name as Rashad Smith and that he was a BJJ Purple Belt who had trained at LA MMA. ‘Rashad’ had a dislike for me for some reason. ‘Rashad’ posted that his cousin lived in the Austin area and was going to come to me and beat me down. He asked for info on me and Rudy complied. Sandra Fox also admitted later to actually calling my gym and asking if I trained there and if they did train fighters there too. Since I had never known of any BJJ Purple Belt to have someone else fight his battles for him, I became suspicious of ‘Rashads’ claim to be a BJJ Purple Belt and began asking Sandra Fox to ask about this over there as I do not bother to post on Rudy’s forum. Mrs Fox admitted to talking to him, but said it was private:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=815423&postcount=92
After repeated requests for the name of who gave ‘Rashad’ his belt, Tom finally said it was his own business:
http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=815474&postcount=106

So I decided to take a closer look at Tom Fox’s role in the Coda Scott saga, as he was looking to be a huge hypocrite now. I found some very interesting stuff in the thread concerning Tom Fox.

On 8/6/06 Tom took over teaching Coda’s classes while Coda was away:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1186150&postcount=51

On 9/13/06 Emboesso (of all people!) notes that Tom fox is on Coda’s promotions board:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1221375&postcount=752

On 9/27/06 Tom becomes frustrated at Coda and walks off, then demands to be taken off of Coda’s testing board:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1233056&postcount=1139

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1232853&postcount=1064

On 9/28/06 Tom first mentions helping Coda’s students:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1233137&postcount=1183

But later THE SAME DAY Tom says Coda does not know what he is doing and says he may challenge him:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1233154&postcount=1189

On 10/25/06 Tom changes his tune and offers to train Coda, but only if he is paid. Tom makes this offer despite seeing Coda displaying and saying he earned a military medal he did not earn:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1254744&postcount=1772

On 3/23/07 Sandra Fox confirms Tom offered to train Coda:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1397732&postcount=41

The next day, 3/24/07, Tom says he did offer to train Coda and does not rescind the offer:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1398448&postcount=76

Now this one takes the cake! Just 28 minutes later Tom discourages anyone from training with Coda, BUT THEN SAYS HE COULD BE A GOOD INSTRUCTOR:

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showpost.php?p=1398966&postcount=78

So it does appear that Tom Fox is a huge hypocrite. While ‘Rashad’ can claim belts and it’s no one’s business, he charges head first into investigating Coda Scott for the same thing. Then AFTER Coda was found to be liar about his MA experience and military service, Tom Fox offers to train him! As Tom’s ranks are legitimate, any rank he bestowed on Coda would have been legitimate too, thus allowing a known liar and fraud to operate under legit credentials given to him by Tom Fox!

Tom Fox, you are a hypocrite.

[Pandinha]

Interesting reading.

[The_Fake_Macoy]

It’s nice to see that you have copies of the posts for proof. That is a very strange story indeed.

[mad_malk]

Sounds to me like he had coda debunked so he could pick up coda’s students. but thats just how i see it.

[Ke_poFist]

1bad, you really know how to stick it to people, and call them on their words. Sheesh, well done.

[soundless]

starts a slow clap

[It-is-fake]

Puts things in an interesting position.

waits patiently

[Pandinha]

@Olorin

Click on the links 1bad65 provided and read the actual posts.

On 8/6/06 Tom took over teaching Coda’s classes while Coda was away:

“he had my husband lead his class for him and Coda didn’t come back for bout month and half and when he came back he was mad at what was being taught… his students were actually learning techniques and proper movements… not the “storming the fortress” defense…”

On 9/27/06 Tom becomes frustrated at Coda and walks off, then demands to be taken off of Coda’s testing board:

“I walked out what does that say? Coda knew I would fail his students that I felt were not up to par so to speak”

“I did however tell Coda to take My name off his test board if I was not allowed to test anyone and he did not…I have not talked to him since and have no desire to.”

On 9/28/06 Tom first mentions helping Coda’s students:

“I showed up because coda said some of his students did not think I was a real BB wanted to show his students the right way to do things”

On 10/25/06 Tom changes his tune and offers to train Coda, but only if he is paid. Tom makes this offer despite seeing Coda displaying and saying he earned a military medal he did not earn:

“I told him that the problem was between him and me and that I did not have anything against his students. I told him that he had to stop telling lies about people (me included) and quit acting like a little kid. He said that he was sorry and asked if he posted an apology on the website if it would help.

I then looked at his table where all of his nic-naks were and noticed that there was a military medal displayed. I asked where he got that. He stated he got it while in the ROTC. I went over and got a closer look at it and noticed that it was an Expaditionary Forces Medal from the U.S. Navy. When I told him that since he was never in the military that he could not have earned that medal and that is the only way you can offically recieve that medal. He then told me that an Admiral gave it to him for training he did while in ROTC and did not have any orders for it. I think he bought it from a pawn shop or an Army/Navy store.”

On 3/23/07 Sandra Fox confirms Tom offered to train Coda

“He would have to start at the bottom just like any other student of his. So far Coda has not taken him up on his offer, which leads me to believe he does not want any help.”

Now this one takes the cake! Just 28 minutes later Tom discourages anyone from training with Coda, BUT THEN SAYS HE COULD BE A GOOD INSTRUCTOR:

“Scott does not like me and I do not like him. I have told him excactly what I thought of him and called him on his lies. He even apoligized to me at one time and then started talking his crap again. I discourage every one I can from training with him. I have told people the truth about him and even have a few other Instructors in town that are working with me to get the truth out on him. We are still working on somethings to get more facts. The worst thing is, if he would just go back and complete his training to the level he is claiming and be honest with people, he could be a good instructor, he has the capability. But he won’t do it, in my opinion he wants the power and respect without working for it.”

What is so inconsistent about this? If you are going to take someones words wildly out of context, next time do not prove links.

Also this is how you do an investigation…

.

Where was any of what you posted on Bullshido? Links please.

[1bad65]

And what I did was NOT an investigation, nor did I ever claim it was. It was basically just Tom and Sandra Fox’s own words showing the hypocracy.

Notice this sentence:
“As Tom’s ranks are legitimate, any rank he bestowed on Coda would have been legitimate too, thus allowing a known liar and fraud to operate under legit credentials given to him by Tom Fox!”

[xingyifa]

This thread should probably be moved since no bullshido has been demonstrated or even claimed. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I was under the impression that MABS was definetely the wrong place to start “I don’t like so-and-so because…” threads…

[kaikido2003]

Sound’s to me that if you weren’t there then you don’t know what you are talking about, I know Coda and I know Tom. what else can one say Coda "FAT BOY " Scott is a fake and Tom is for real, enough said.

[Dio]

@1bad65

As for training Coda, while you offered to train him in MMA for free, notice Fox offered to train him BUT ONLY IF HE WAS PAID. Also, about the context of Fox saying Coda could be a good instructor: the context is moot, the date is the key. Fox said this AFTER Coda had been proven to be a liar and a fraud. How many good instructors do you know who are both a liar and a fraud?

It should be noted that Tom Fox runs a private martial arts dojo where students are expected to pay monthly dues. The MMA team Olorin, et al, refer to is actually the Oklahoma State University MMA Club, which is a free extracurricular club offered to all students or members of the OSU rec center.

What Fox was saying is that Coda would enter his class “like every other beginner,” with the same expectations as anyone who walked in off the street. In my experience if another black belt joins a class and proves themself to be a quality martial artist worthy of the rank, they typically get some perks like faster rank advancement in the new school (if their experience is applicable) or assistant teaching privileges once they get to know everyone.

Coda could not prove he had earned his stated rank, so Fox wouldn’t give him any of the respect or perks that normally are associated with a black belt.

I also notice that in relation to Fox’s post about Coda lying about his military service and a medal you left this out of Fox’s quote:
“I told Scott that I would be willing to teach him proper self-defense… If I do, he will have to pay my monthly class fees, and start as a white belt.”
So AFTER Fox knows Coda lied about his military service he still offered to train him, for money of course! Fox seems to be consistant here though; he keeps offering to train Coda AFTER he catches him lying, and always for money.

I believe you’re taking the money thing out of context. See above comment for my reasoning, and keep in mind that Tom Fox (in my opinion from what I’ve seen of him) tries to maintain a pretty rigid attitude following what we would think of as “traditional” martial arts behavior.

You also complety left out the fact that Fox has lied about who challenged who in relation to me. His wife offered him up after she herself challenged me to a cage match. Tom is still denying this as I pointed out in the initial post.

You also left out the fact the Fox feels ‘Rashad Smiths’ lying about belts is his business, but Coda should be taken to task for his lying about belt ranks. Notice on KFM forums I REPEATEDLY asked Fox to explain this, yet he continuously declined.

I think part of what you’re dealing with is the fact that Tom’s wife is something of a loose cannon. If you look at her interactions around here, she’s been much more explicit in stating her feelings, opinions, and has generally been very much the vehement one where Tom prefers to remain cool and official in his dealings.

Having said that, I do agree that the actions from the other forum are questionable. Enough to call bullshido? Meh, I don’t know about that. I think I’ll reserve any judgement until Fox has a chance to give his side of things in here, and we get this all sorted out.

[Phrost]

Someone should collect all of the relevant information and put it into a readable format on www.Bullshido.ORG.

[Olorin]

[quote=““Pandinha” aka Anthony”]
Where was any of what you posted on Bullshido? Links please.
[/quote]

It was the links that 1bad65 posted in the OP. The reason I went ahead and copy/pasted them was that I do not think that the evidence that 1bad65 is using supports his claims.

[1bad65]

@Dio

…and keep in mind that Tom Fox (in my opinion from what I’ve seen of him) tries to maintain a pretty rigid attitude following what we would think of as “traditional” martial arts behavior.

Is this ‘tradional martial arts behavior’?

@Fox

I am going to tell you this right now, just like in the pm,Anthony is a piece of ****. Porn distributor. I dislike him just as much as the coward Os, Kat and her gf. when my wife gets threatend with bodily harm and BS does nothing, I call BS on most. That includes you and believing everthing someone tells you.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=795237&postcount=1753

@Dio

I think part of what you’re dealing with is the fact that Tom’s wife is something of a loose cannon. If you look at her interactions around here, she’s been much more explicit in stating her feelings, opinions, and has generally been very much the vehement one where Tom prefers to remain cool and official in his dealings.

Yeah, he sure remained cool and official with his personal attaks on Osiris, Kat, Kidspatula, and Anthony.

I agree about his wife. And I have told Tom REPEATEDLY on KFM that she is the problem. Frankly she is a shit-stirring, two-faced woman who hangs out with the trash that is Rudy Abel and his board. Tom called me a liar when I denied challenging him. Between that and his hypocracy on ‘Rashad Smith’, I went off. Even AFTER I posted Sandra’s posts where she offered up Tom for a fight with me, he still called me a liar. He may want to defend his wife, I get that, but when I point out what she said instead of calling me a liar he needs to deal with her. How he does that is his business, but he has no right to call me a liar when I did not lie.

And here is an interesting exchange on KFM between Sandra Fox and a user called ‘Knifefighter’:

@Knifefighter

Maybe you should just let the people involved work this out between themselves.

Getting your husband involved may just end up with him getting his ass handed to him the same way Springer got his handed to him.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=786200&postcount=998

@FungFu2u2

I will do just that.you make more sense then anyone so far.

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=786201&postcount=999

Want to call me a liar again Tom?

@Dio

Having said that, I do agree that the actions from the other forum are questionable. Enough to call bullshido?

I NEVER called Fox bullshido. I called him a hypocrite.

[boxingbear]

Boxingbear here! Man im reading some of the shit.“THATS RIGHT SHIT”. 1BAD65 Did u read any of the threads on fatbay scott ,or did u just look on the ones with toms name on them. because Tom didn’t take over fatboy’s class . I did! but if u read the threads u would have known that. I’ve known Tom for awhile now. And he has always been a good friend to me and my family. AND I TRUST HIM. So here it is! U don’t have to like him , BUT DON’T START SHIT THAT ISN’T TRUE.DON’T RUN UR LIP IF U DON’T HAVE UR FACTS DOWN.OH! Don’t run the lip about poeple u don’t know. thank u from Thad’thebear"brady

[fox]

Well, this has been very interseting to say the least. I may have jumped the gun and miss read the pms that I got from 1bad65 and called him a liar. If I am wrong, I apologize, I deleted all of the pms so I can no longer bring up evdience one way or another. I picked up on the investigation on Scott because I was trying to find out who was telling the truth. The more I dug the more lies I found Scott to be guilty of. Before this happened I was trying to help a young martial artist in starting his classes. Then things started sounding wrong. It came to a head between Scott and myself when I found out he was trying to set me up for a “beat down” and I tried to make an easy break. I then got called a coward, amoung other things. Time went on and more crap came out and he started sending me harrassing emails and telling lies about me. I confronted him and he apollogized and offered to make a clean start and later he started his crap again.

   This is just a small sample of the problems that I have had with Scott.  Adam Hull is now trying to get Scott to walk a better path and got him to come and give me a so-called apology. Scott even said he would post his apology on Bullshido. It never happened. It was not really an apology anyway and even Adam thinks it was a crappy  apology. When they were at my school giving me this so-called apology, I told Scott that if he ever walked into my Dojo again, that he would be fair game for any of my students or myself that wanted to fight him.

   All said and done I think that 1bad started this thread because I would not go on Rudy's board and find out who gave him his belt in BJJ. For one I do not have any reason to doubt his wor at this time. He has done nothing to me to warrant me to investigate him. I have not been on Rudy's board in quite a while and do not plan on going back on.

  I have dug up more stuff on Scott but I do not think that I will be sharing any more info about Scott on this board.  

PS… I will not go into the stuff on the Kung Fu Forum.

[Fantasy_Warrior]

Looks like Mr Fox is being accused on the grounds of association with persons who the original poster has some issues with, but who neither the OP nor Mr Fox seem to know beyond the internet anyway. And that the whole Scott think is just a way of screaming bullshit.

Hey, who else who’s helped the site so massively shall we try to fuck off next?

[1bad65]

@boxingbear

because Tom didn’t take over fatboy’s class . I did! but if u read the threads u would have known that.

@fox

he had my husband lead his class for him and Coda didn’t come back for bout month and half and when he came back he was mad at what was being taught…

So which one is true Thad?

[fox]

mine was a quote from scotts quote

@1bad65

So which one is true Thad?

Mine was a quote from Scott, quote of what Thad’s wife had posted. You just can’t let it go can you? Talk about my wife stirring stuff up, you are doing the same thing.