The likelyhood of using a technique like this seems extremely remote. While certainly one could argue as Matt Stone has that “it’s good to have tools in the toolbox” I would assert that this is an almost entirely impractical technique more suited for expanding the “art” rather then being of serious martial use. As a fighter I can’t picture any situation where I would opt for this technique over simply smashing the person with my big hard fist. Especially if they’re already in a compromised position and I can smash them more or less at will.
As an aside as a former practioner of Wado Ryu (6 years baby, and my pinan nidan won me a trophy ) I would like to hear Der Auslanders explanation of the technique as I had always thought it was simply a spearhand to the solarplexus aswell.
He didnt actually win the match though because the match had lasted a long time and to determine the winner they decided each man could give the other one free hit.
So his opponent took his free hit, and then the dude in question took his free hit which supposedly fucked the dude up, but he lost the match because the judges ruled that it counted as four hits due to the finger tips.
And yes i think it’s likely BS aswell…But who knows, people back in those days probably did conditioning we dont do today. if I was a hard bitten professional fighter that had no other life perhaps I’d consider conditioning for outlandish techniques like this.
As is I’m some chick that fights for fun from time to time and risking my joint health in the long term to be able to spearhand someone effectively isnt really in my cards.
There was another one where the prize was apparently awarded to a corpse. Also ancient greece. The story goes that these two guys were fighting in a match, one guy struck the other guy fatally whislt they were in a standing grapple. Due to the bizarre manner in which they were entangled, the dead man falling snapped the ankles of his opponent, causing him to cry out in submission (thus losing).
So the legend goes that they hauled the corpse up and awarded it the prize.
DerAuslander, you do make a number of very good points, but, in many situations, the spearhand is simply too risky and precise to be used in the average street fight. In sparring it’s simply unnecessary and, in many cases, too d34dly for the ring.
It is sort of interesting to note that the spearhand does have superior reach and penetrating power, and allows for greater extension than a standard punch. But again, the fingers are relatively weak, and in a situation where you don’t have time to aim the strike you are better off doing something else.
To use an example, think of a standard straight-in punch as an assault rifle, and the spearhand as a sniper rifle. The assault rifle can be fired quickly and accurately while maintaining a significant amount of power, and as such can be used in a wide variety of situations with great effect. It is an all-purpose workhorse. The sniper rifle, on the other hand, has significantly greater range, muzzle velocity, penetrating power, but usually lacks rapid-fire ability and as such needs to be aimed very carefully. It is an all-or-nothing weapon that, in the hands of an expert, can deliver the most lethal small arms fire on a battlefield, but that when mishandled or used unjudiciously is useless or even dangerous for the user.
Get it?
Knowing the ancient Greeks, this probably happened more than once.
First, my basic presumption in martial training is that it was never intended to be used against trained, skilled fighters. Martial training, like firearms today, was a common way for a person to elevate his/her ability to fend off aggressors beyond the ability of the aggressor to, well, aggress…
EDIT BY ANNA T:
Shit matt, i accidently edited this when I mant to reply, I appologize but I can’t restore it.
What i meant to say when i fucked up matts post by deleting a big chunk of it (which I am redfaced and feeling guilty about) Was that
I don’t buy the assumption that martial artdwere meant to take on only unskilled types… We know that in the past skilled fighters fought eachother be it in friendly competition, not so friendly competition and in all out war.
My personal assessment of the matter in the modern context is that I’d rather build an arsenal of techniques that have proven their worth against other skilled conditioned opponents then a lot of techniques designed to wipe out joe bloe. You never know who you’re going to piss off.
Tonight at BJJ, a Marine tried to spearhand me while we were grappling. As I was passing his “guard,” he tried repeatedly to strike me in the soft part of my throat. I dumped him on his head, knee on faced him, and kimuraed him while driving my shin across his schnoz.
That’s right. I used a SAFE FOR COMPETITION TECHNIQUE to defeat a killing strike. I don’t really know what this thread is about, but I am pretty sure I just owned it.
Dude that totally reminds me that some jerk in BJJ class bout a year back was spearhanding me in the throat too.
My thought process at the time was “maybe I should tell this dude that that shit isnt going to work and to knock it off”
Then I was like “well, no, if i do that then he’ll think that it’s worthwhile and that his techniques are actually effective and that a dumb BJJer cant handle it”
so then I just proceeded to positionally dominate him and I believe he tapped from knee on belly due to a supposed rib injury.
This is where I set you up to explain how using BJJ positioning control is a near ideal way to use a spear hand, and then you explain why you wouldn’t do it.
I used a spearhand to the throat in BJJ when this Frankenstein-esque guy tried to can-opener me for the tenth time that night. Instead of using my finger tips I did it with the second knuckles. Since his entire arsenal was can-openers and footlocks he was completely out of options after that.
The lesson to be learned here is that you can make anything work as long as your BJJ is better than your opponent’s.
Are we rolling for comedy or the keys to the car? I need to know which dress to wear. I double armbarred the same idiot tonight for trying to can opener me.
You learned TKD, who’s forms are largely derived from Shotokan.
Shotokan’s kata are, until recently, taught without respect to bunkai, meaning the founders of TKD had some wack ideas about what those moves were for.
There is only one reason and one reason only to use a spear hand in the situation I outlined, and that is to damage the carotid, and I can think of only one reason I would ever want to damage someone’s carotid.
Jack Bauer FTW.
I agree.
Buy me a camera and I’ll YouTube it.
Are you trying to get in my quote box?
Sure.
Refresh my memory, cuz we’ve been through a lot, you and I.
What was your question?
I’ve spent more time drilling knees to the face because they are legal in competition.
I’ve never had the need or opportunity to make a pin-point strike aimed at someone’s carotid, and I really don’t ever want to.
An understandable sentiment to be sure.
People have died from being punched in the temple. This doesn’t validate the LARP myth people have that their punches are deadlyy, but it does still mean that you can kill someone with a punch to the temple.
People have died from trauma to the neck/carotid. You can kill someone with a traumatic strike to the carotid.
Not saying you will.
Just saying you can.
Two main reasons.
First, because of its limited application. I can train my cross to hit someone in the nose, the jaw, the solar plexus, the balls, basically where ever I want. It will do damage almost anywhere, and my fist will likely not be damaged as long as I’m using correct form. Extrapolating from application, the spearhand is meant for one, maybe two targets, and only in situations where you can pretty much guarantee an unobstructed shot.
I can think of better ways to spend my training time.
Secondly, since it’s meant for the carotid, why would I want to be doing that to my training partner’s. That leaves me pretty much with static training drills, which I get bored of quickly, and obviously aren’t alive training methods, thus making my ability to perform said technique questionable.
I’d like to think I’m not a homocidal maniac.
Mav & Dagon will probably tell you otherwise, though.
Yes, you “can”, but as I said above, your ability to perform the technique in combat and your willingness to are questionable.
I hang out with Ninjew.
I believe that it “can” work. Not that it will. I dismiss it not because it won’t work, but because I have training priorities that render it unnecessary. I learned it because it was part of the syllabus, and moved on.
GarbanzoBean (1:54:54 AM): HEY DER HOW DO YOU RIP SOMEONE’S HEART OUT WITH YOUR BARE HANDS I HEARD THAT WAS IN TKD KATA
GarbanzoBean (1:56:43 AM): See, why should you have to explain something like this?
GarbanzoBean (1:56:58 AM): I think it’s more efficient just to call the person that brings that up a cocksucking faggot and move on
) I would like to hear Der Auslanders explanation of the technique as I had always thought it was simply a spearhand to the solarplexus aswell.