I’ve had another sniff around Ashida’s business practices and started to expplore how he sees business ethics:
http://p206.ezboard.com/fashidakimmessageboardsfrm2.showMessage?topicID=338.topic
Me:
Do martial arts business persons have a moral responsibility
… towards the general public/customers?
You know the type of thing I mean, like if you teach someone something as “self-defence”, is it the seller’s obligation to ensure that it is effective as such, or is it the customers (“student”) responsibility to only buy effective self-defence instruction/advice?
I just wonder where people stand on martial arts business ethics.
Ashida:
Judgmental…
This is just a variation of the “which style is best” argument.
ALL martial arts, even the worst ones, have something to offer and DIFERENT PEOPLE have different tastes and preferences. Just because you don’t enjoy a particular system doesn’t mean it has no value.
Therefore, this is not a question of ethics at all, but another attempt to discredit what we offer. And brother, we got it all. We can show you how to rip off a guy’s head and spit in his neck. Or, strangle him out and bring him back to life. So, we have the whole spectrum. Not enough for you, is it?
BUT, suppose there was a guy with just one technique and it worked really well for him and he wanted to share it with everyone. Would it be "unethical’ for him to offer his method to the public? Of course not.
But who are you or I or anyone to try and guess the sincerity of another person’s book or tape or personal martial arts system and say it is “unethical” because it a) teaches how to kill with brutality or b) because it might not be effective on the street?
You think this insult to Mugei Mumei no Jitsu is subtle enough to get by. But it ain’t! I GUARANTEE YOU that if you throw sand in a guy’s eyes, even if he’s Andre the Giant, you will have the tactical advantage and be in control of the fight. It is then up to YOU whether to run away and keep the peace, or pick up a brick and beat the SOB to death. And, that smart-ass, is a martial art whether you like it or not. And it works every time and it don’t take no ten years of kissing somebody’s ass to get a Black Belt.
'Zat “ethical” enough for ya?
Ashida Kim
Me:
?
Sorry mate, you appear to have misread the question. It isn’t a slight at your system -it’s a question about MA business ethics.
You are I understand quite involved in the business aspect of the martial arts community. What do you see as your moral obligations and how do you balance them wth the natural business desire for maximum profitability?
It’s a tricky toipic we all (involved in ‘selling’ MA) face.
Ashida:
No I didn’t…
I didn’t misread the question you jackass.
I understood it perfectly and I answered it: ALL MARTIAL ARTS HAVE SOMETHING TO OFFER. Ethics has nothing to do ith it. Looks more like YOU didn’t read the answer.
See, you start out with the premise that everyone is trying to cheat you, to sell you something worthless. (An indication of your own low self esteem.) And, of course, worth is measured by your own impossible standard so no one can live up to it. (And you can pretend you are “intellectually” superior.)
I prefer to believe that men are basically good and will do good things if given the opportunity. I have bought things from disreputable dealers who didn’t deliver, but they are pretty rare. I’ve bought a few things I wasn’t satisfied with, but I’ve seldom been cheated. Except by shyster lawyers and dickheads like you.
All you want to do is argue. Go away or I’ll ban you again!
Ashida Kim
Me:
How about this for a more palatable frame of reference:
An example of what most people would regard as poor ethics in MA business:
[I]A certain gentleman in London UK advertised a ‘home learning’ self-defence product, including certificate, on e-bay. he stated in the info that it was endorsed by another certain gentleman and his organisation (Dave Turton, 8th Dan Self Defence Federation). The certificates were apparently signed by Dave Turton.
HOWEVER. Dave Turton, nor his org, endorse, support or even approve of the course, let alone Dave (knowingly) sigining any such certs. Although the exact circumstances of how the first gentleman got hold of the signiture (or falsified it???) is not clear, he is in effect conning his customers into believing that his course is endorsed by a repyutable MA organisation.
That is basically a fraud. Most would agree that it is unethical because it exploits Dave Turton (/SDF) and misleads the customer. [/I]
Do you agree that (going by the info presented) the seller is unethical?
But that’s an extreme case to demonstrate the point.
On a more routine level, how do forum members stand with regards to watering down grading requirements to allow more people (more money) to grade? -or similar practices like increasing the number of gradings etc.
Sorry to go on, but I thought the original question was completely valid and not style bashing at all.
Ashida:
Ah Ha!
Well, now we are getting at the root of the problem.
Obviously you our one of your mates bought this course and are not happy with it. So, instead of taking personal responsibility to go and get your money back you launch into this stupidity about ethics in an attempt to get us on your side. That still won’t get your money back, LOL
Second, it is not your problem. It is Dave Turton’s name that is being misused, up to HIM to do something about it. Why come whining to us?
Third, even if the course is pure dreck, you still learn the lesson of what to watch out for and not buy next time. It’s called being able to discriminate and discern and be selective and shop wisely. Because, as I said before, these cases are rare at best and don’t last long at worst. It’s a good example of a bad example.
Now, what would you have US do? Go beat the bum up for you? Would you have your silly government REGULATE the martial arts industry? That would put everybody who wasn’t one of their flunkies out of business.
Let me clarify what ethics is for you, bonehead:
“Ethics is how you act when you think no one is watching. It is a test of character.”
Suppose you saw a fellow employee stealing on the job. But, you knew he was in dire financial straits and that his wife needed an operation and the boss was a pig who often worked everyone overtime without pay. Would you report him, or turn a blind eye? THAT is an ethical question.
Your postulation, as I said at the outset, is simply garbage.
Ashida Kim
What a nob this guy is.