Jolly Roger, like I keep repeating, why not visit a good instructor and ask him to show you some grappling? While I’m not sure if there are any ninpo instructors in Argentina, I’m sure if you ever do some travelling to Japan or North America you can try out your moves.
As an addendum, perhaps you should really reflect on how you demand proof of others, yet you are unwilling to provide it.
And with that, I’m officially finished indulging the Foot Clan.
I’m not sure what FAST company is, but it might be unit dependent. I’m in Chosen company because my battalion still uses the names from Vietnam.
You’re correct about what you say about military combatives. Like I said, it was originally taught as a quick contingency, so if you found yourself in “too close” combat, you could control the guy until your buddy took him out.
I didn’t say that military training gives any more experience in unarmed combat. What I did say that when you begin to argue about what prepares you for some type of combat (which in the previous post, people were complaining because things were being demonstrated slowly in the video), the military provides an excellent example of how you can’t “run” every time you train. Many of you train because you may end up fighting. People like the military, and fire fighters, train in a specific manner knowing that they WILL fight.
As far as the military teaching you “just enough” MA, this is true. Unless you’re in a Ranger Battalion of even SF. People in SF have tole me that they still use the old army training that taught you to break people. Then again, they sometimes operate with a lot less stuff on. They have a different mission from us in the infantry. Rangers learn a lot more, and they tend to be better at BJJ. Their unit has more money, they’ve been doing it for years (I believe since the early 90’s), and they do it just because. Some guys will end up Gracie certified. I remember when I was in Ranger School, a couple of guys from Battalion would just straight challenge each other when they were bored. Two guys went off to where the instructors weren’t, one man came back just short of bragging.
why do people persist in comparing the merits of a system that is BUILT AROUND weapons with one that is NOT?
Again, the original post, if you read it did not even talk about training in the combt system. It talked about training in such a manner.
Again, if you read it, one of my examples was from before I entered the military (actually, I’m not sure if that’s entirely clear, but the two non-military examples are just that), and the other was training for a raid on a building.
My point here was to talk to people wo attempt to bash demonstrating something slowly, or state that if you’re not always going full speed and full force that you’re not training properly or that you get nothing from it. I was pointing out that the military, which trains for combat, which can be compared to hand to hand combat (in that it is fast paced, unpredictable, and life-threathening), does not ALWAYS train at full speed, with full force, using real rounds, or wearing full equipment. More often than not, you have to train slowly.
For every fight you see, whether it’s boxing, grappling, or MMA, every five minutes is backed by countless hours of training. Every 25 minute West Point parade has 2 hours a day for 4 days behind it. Every small video of combat that you download, has months of battle drill practice.
Here’s a question for those of you who teach, whether as a sensei or just when you teach someone you train with: when you want to show them something for the first time, in a manner in which they will take away the concept, do you do it really fast, of do you break it down and even talk your way through it? Now, I’m not talking about a MA demo. I’m talkng about doing it so that if you were trying to convey an idea or concept, that concept or idea had the greatest possible chance of being picked up by those viewing it.
A quick point for those who still talk about the “does the bujinkan teach grappling” question, if you read the first post, it talks about when it started being stressed more (for a better time reference, it was around 1998), why it is being stressed more, and how there were a handful of things that were shown (mostly throws and controls, which were shown at the upper ranks), but nothing on the level of 3-5 minute rounds for an hour while switching opponents. OUR primary art was taijutsu, which is a stand up art, and we did some grappling. Some of us are good at grappling. I’m kind of mediocre, but I’ve choked out my share of people. Seeing as how a lot of us like to cross train, you’re not going to get pure taijutsu, depending on who you learn from.
If I started teaching, you’d be getting a bit of Krav Maga. My shidoshi stressed leg strength a lot. He previously trained in Shotokan. My buddy the Marine, who’s a 4th Dan, earned his black belt in Judo before he trained in the Bujinkan, so he stresses stand up throws. Guess what. If someone trained in grappling before or while they wre in the bujinkan, chances are they’ll add quite a bit of grappling to the system.
Snowcat.
Ok, this is how a comparative challenge match is suppose to work:
Numbnut A = 2 years BJJ
Numbnut B = 2 years Ninujtsu training
or
Numbnut A = 15 years BJJ
Numbnut B = 15 years Ninjutsu
It does NOT work like this:
Numbnut A = 9 months BJJ
Numbnut B = 20 years Ninjutsu
Got it?
If you are gonna tell someone to challenge someone else, lets not bring in the “masters” ok, not unless you are suggesting a match between masters, got it?
You thought the same thing about Tai Chi until RM gave you a run for your money :laughing9
Not against Japanese pro wrestlers, they aren’t. :icon_wink
KotoRyu,
Go sit in the corner. Your videos demonstrating that ninjaness didn’t suck, sucked. End of story.
There may indeed be some ninjas out there who can actually fight. Based on the amount of video detritius, I doubt it’s many.
SMF, It’s the ninja’s looking for validation that they have something to offer besides silly tabi socks that want that. Hell lock at the very nature of the first video thread post.
There are ninjutsu practitioners out there who can fight, and there are those who can’t. There are BJJers out there who can and some who can’t. Same with MT, TKD, boxing, judo, etc. People on Bullshido tend to not consider that it’s not more important about what a person’s art is or what the art itself can do, it’s what that person can do with it that really matters. All of the martial arts were originally used for fighting, so if you train appropriately, you can fight with any martial art you take. It’s not that hard to comprehend.
The percentage of BJJ, judo, boxing and MT practitioners who can actually fight dwarfs ninjitsu’s so greatly it’s not even funny.
Compare the amount of all those who take those to ninjutsu (which is a relatively small art compared to the big ones), and if you figure out the percentages it won’t be all that dramatic. Just because a person takes a martial art, no matter what it is, doesn’t mean he’s going to be able to fight and win. It more boils down to whether that person themself has what it takes to fight. You can see many cases where someone who supposedly had a “superior” style either got beaten or fought on even terms with someone who possessed an “inferior” style. Check some of the clips on here: TKD beating MT, RM giving Shum a good run for his money, etc.
You’re hopeless.
Deal with numbers, not what ifs. Replication and repeatability are not on your side.
Huh, grommit. Who knew. :grommit:
Althought, perhaps some 20 ninjas COULD outfight a drunken dwarf who does BJJ
RM trained how much longer than Shumagorath?
Exceptions are just that. That you use the exceptions as validation is sad. People that box, wrestle (sub or otherwise), do MT, judo etc. can look at the common practicioner and use that. You have to go to extraordinary lengths. Why, because your art seems to have a high success rate of producing shitty fighters.
It’s easy to see MT, BJJ, wrestling, boxing, sambo and some other fighting arts effectiveness just by watching the NHB sporting events. NHB wasn’t catered to these arts, these arts just happen to be a good fit for no-rules fighting. Even in Brazillian Vale Tudo, where there really are no rules, these arts tend to shine. Where are all the ninja? There were a token 2, i think, that won their fights by throwing haymakers and being just tough guys, not with ninjitsu.
But that’s what most people make their assumptions on here at Bullshido as well. Just because it’s not used in a ring where there are strict rules and you’re fighting against someone who’s of your equal weight, wearing at least some protective gear, people automatically assume it’s worthless. I’m not saying full contact training is wrong, far from it, I’m just saying it’s not the catch-all for proving an art’s effectiveness.
Both were with American Ninjutsu under Bussey, which is not really ninjutsu at all.