Rabbit Farms

Reviews, Videos, and Everything Else Trollshido
1

Kiwi Farms (“KF”) recently came up in a thread somewhere about something. KF is an infamous stalker forum according to the media -> http://nymag.com/selectall/2016/07/kiwi-farms-the-webs-biggest-community-of-stalkers.html. According to its own members (…) it’s not anything like that! That’s when I tasted Flavor Aid.

The subject of their credibility came up, as a shady web forum filled with stalkers, trolls, criminals, and maybe a couple nice people looking for online laughs. Actually meeting Bullshido’s fairly ethical reporting standards was debated, since KF has a lot of negative flags. The list is too numerous to even start with (pick an e-celebrity nemesis) but we can start with the latest self immolation in a crowded Portland street. This person was apparently a long-time focus of KF. Other suicides have been linked to KF as well.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2018/06/person_sets_self_on_fire_in_do.html
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5876485/Brilliant-tortured-31-year-old-transgender-artist-set-fire.html

I’ve read a couple of the threads on KF about this and generally everyone seems not only entertained they are being talked about, but universally in agreement that KF is cool, and is never responsible for this sort of thing, they only observe and report. I think even at least 1 Bully claimed they are “only observers”, but obviously not if they are being connected with suicides by people outside of KF.

KF is so stalky that they are actively archiving everything being said about them with regard to this suicide, including probably this post. I guess their reasoning is you never know, when the next lolcow will pass by. This site famously targeted its owner’s family and was shut down for a while, because the owner upset the crowd there.

Isn’t this cultish behavior by a bunch of people claiming to just have a laugh, and actually involved in the lives of their prey as opposed to “observing”. The hypocrisy and bullshido of members seems kind of obvious.

Also obvious was that there is really no comparison between Bullshido and KF in terms of ethos and methodology. BS is a site for adults. KF uses the term “caustic” and “edge” a lot, you get the point.

Full disclosure, I made a bad comparison earlier about Chuck Hardin and KF, and I apologize. No disrespect was intended. I got called on it already.

2

Sorry meant to include some details.

‘Brilliant’ artist commits suicide by setting herself on fire in the middle of a busy Portland street ‘after being bullied online’

Oregon native Chloe Sagal self-immolated Thursday afternoon at Lownsdale Square, across the street from the Multnomah County Courthouse in Portland 
Hospital official at Legacy Emanuel Hospital later announced that the 31-year-old had succumbed to her wounds 
Friends and family described Sagal as a 'brilliant' but 'tortured' artist who struggled with mental health issues for most of her short life 
Sagal also struggled with online harassers who mercilessly attacked her for her lifestyle, with friends believing the abuse may have pushed her over the edge
Just days before her demise, police detained Sagal after receiving reports that she intended to harm herself
3

I’m sorry, but public self immolation… Her friends and family failed her if she pulled that one off. A lot has to break down in your support network with being detained by police for self harm and then puing of such a public spectacle only days later. Online bullying may have played a role, but it sounds more like it is being scape goated.

Also KF may have stalkers and trolls among their membership, but don’t they have something like forty thousand members? You are going to get a few bad apples. There have been stalkers here. One caused a gong sau that hurt the forum pretty bad when all was said and done.

4

[QUOTE=Michael Tzadok;2984800]I’m sorry, but public self immolation… Her friends and family failed her if she pulled that one off. A lot has to break down in your support network with being detained by police for self harm and then puing of such a public spectacle only days later. Online bullying may have played a role, but it sounds more like it is being scape goated.

Also KF may have stalkers and trolls among their membership, but don’t they have something like forty thousand members? You are going to get a few bad apples. There have been stalkers here. One caused a gong sau that hurt the forum pretty bad when all was said and done.[/QUOTE]

Which GS do you mean, I’m curious. I don’t remember a stalker GS.

According to Bullshido’s front page we have 200,000+ members, so meh on that sort of claim without solid proof. Accounts vs actual people. BS has never had more than a handful of bad apples as in people who have really caused problems for others online or in the real. KF seems to be the opposite, a site of rottens with a few golden delicious mixed in or maybe hiding in some white knight attempt to “right” the website. We’ve seen that here on BS before, too. Mixed in with the rottens and ripes are what seem to be a million little yellowjackets ready to sting.

Good points about friends and family, but there does seem to be a yuge network of avatars chasing this person around online. Outside KF, there is a lot outrage about KF’s alleged involvement as a group on this particular person’s psyche. On KF itself now each member is defending the others, and as a group, dismissing the forum’s influence itself on generally anything negative that happens There seems to be a sense of self-congratulatory behavior. The contrast between non-KF members who seem to find the site dangerous, and it’s actual membership, is pretty big. KF seems to have little external support.

Bullshido.net has never, nor would ever want to have the kind of reputation KF has. And yet, BS has been subject to similar accusations by it’s own “targets” since the Internet really got going. But Bullshido’s rules of engagement are really clear. Everything has to be above board, or get the fuck out. How many MABs threads were shitcanned because the person starting the “investigation” turned out to have an agenda against someone? On KF anyone with a real agenda against someone can build an army of scary online clowns to chase them. That’s pretty horrifying to me.

Back to KF, the New York Magazine article on the site makes another great point about KF, something that would never fly here and I think somebody maybe you brought it up once: forced anonymity. The site is literally a trap and if you post there and they find out who you really are, you’re in trouble. People are comfortable coming out on BS, because BS has never ruined a members reputation or caused a massive stalking frenzy, has it?

Consider that across the forums there are multiple warnings to members to conceal their identity. For KFers, anonymity isn’t a choice but a necessity — they know what they’re doing is probably illegal, and that their anonymity insulates them from any consequences. They know their “entertainment” harms vulnerable people, which is why some of them felt bad when that one target hanged herself. But, most important, they know that if their anonymity were compromised, their own community might eat them alive.

This RationalWiki article on KF is very informative on its history. KF naturally has their own retaliatory article on RationalWiki. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms

The community there seems to be, based on what I’ve read, a mashup of old trollish forums like Something Awful and 4Chan, so I think it should be kind of obvious that they are not a fraud-busting site or public service community the likes of which Bullshido has always tried to be.

The reason I created this thread was really to address the issue of KF’s credibility as a Bullshido source, because their post content seems universally one-sided and biased. They archive a lot of things like screen shots of Tweets and Facebook but most of the posts are these vast, web-like narratives similar to conspiracy sites. All defend the site and its mission. NO one there is to blame until there is solid evidence they are, and then they’re burned at the stake by the forum in a sort of ritual sacrifice.

The culti-ness of the site is what I’m really trying to get at. Bullshido would never use a culty group as a solid source for anything, like trusting Frank Dux’s cult as a source. There are some completely normal and innocent people who will defend Frank Dux or Ashida Kim, because they’re deep in the bullshido. They’ve even redefined words like “autistic” to fit their needs, and creat new words that members are conditioned to use… that’s another culty red flag.

5

[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984891]Which GS do you mean, I’m curious. I don’t remember a stalker GS.

According to Bullshido’s front page we have 200,000+ members, so meh on that sort of claim without solid proof. Accounts vs actual people. BS has never had more than a handful of bad apples as in people who have really caused problems for others online or in the real. KF seems to be the opposite, a site of rottens with a few golden delicious mixed in or maybe hiding in some white knight attempt to “right” the website. We’ve seen that here on BS before, too. Mixed in with the rottens and ripes are what seem to be a million little yellowjackets ready to sting.

Good points about friends and family, but there does seem to be a yuge network of avatars chasing this person around online. Outside KF, there is a lot outrage about KF’s alleged involvement as a group on this particular person’s psyche. On KF itself now each member is defending the others, and as a group, dismissing the forum’s influence itself on generally anything negative that happens There seems to be a sense of self-congratulatory behavior. The contrast between non-KF members who seem to find the site dangerous, and it’s actual membership, is pretty big. KF seems to have little external support.

Bullshido.net has never, nor would ever want to have the kind of reputation KF has. And yet, BS has been subject to similar accusations by it’s own “targets” since the Internet really got going.

Back to KF, the New York Magazine article on the site makes another great point about KF, something that would never fly here and I think somebody maybe you brought it up once: forced anonymity. The site is literally a trap and if you post there and they find out who you really are, you’re in trouble. People are comfortable coming out on BS, because BS has never ruined a members reputation or caused a massive stalking frenzy, has it?

This RationalWiki article on KF is very informative on its history. KF naturally has their own retaliatory article on RationalWiki. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Kiwi_Farms

The community there seems to be, based on what I’ve read, a mashup of old trollish forums like Something Awful and 4Chan, so I think it should be kind of obvious that they are not a fraud-busting site or public service community the likes of which Bullshido has always tried to be.

The reason I created this thread was really to address the issue of KF’s credibility as a Bullshido source, because their post content seems universally one-sided and biased. They archive a lot of things like screen shots of Tweets and Facebook but most of the posts are these vast, web-like narratives similar to conspiracy sites. All defend the site and its mission. NO one there is to blame until there is solid evidence they are, and then they’re burned at the stake by the forum in a sort of ritual sacrifice.

The culti-ness of the site is what I’m really trying to get at. Bullshido would never use a culty group as a solid source for anything, like trusting Frank Dux’s cult as a source. There are some completely normal and innocent people who will defend Frank Dux or Ashida Kim, because they’re deep in the bullshido. They’ve even redefined words like “autistic” to fit their needs, and creat new words that members are conditioned to use… that’s another culty red flag.[/QUOTE]

It’s customary for us to examine the motives and motivations of the accuser, as well as the accused.

You are on a tear about KF, you have been since you arrived. Most of your posts are anti KF, which is interesting to me because we never gave a rat’s ass about KF one way or another, before you came here and started yelling about AprilRains and KF. Outside of one investigation thread, I’m unaware of KF being used as a “source,” for anything; inside of that one thread, the information being related is public knowledge, e.g. court records and news clippings.

So, how about it? Are you going to share what’s really got your panties in a bunch? Or, are you just going to continue your anonymous and transparent crusade against another forum?

Also, fair warning, I do frequently suspend accounts which I suspect or know to be using illegal or questionable means to access this site. Your tenure here is dependent on my curiosity and your value-add to this community, but don’t for a second think I don’t see your veil.

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[QUOTE=submessenger;2984893]It’s customary for us to examine the motives and motivations of the accuser, as well as the accused.

You are on a tear about KF, you have been since you arrived. Most of your posts are anti KF, which is interesting to me because we never gave a rat’s ass about KF one way or another, before you came here and started yelling about AprilRains and KF. Outside of one investigation thread, I’m unaware of KF being used as a “source,” for anything; inside of that one thread, the information being related is public knowledge, e.g. court records and news clippings.

So, how about it? Are you going to share what’s really got your panties in a bunch? Or, are you just going to continue your anonymous and transparent crusade against another forum?

Also, fair warning, I do frequently suspend accounts which I suspect or know to be using illegal or questionable means to access this site. Your tenure here is dependent on my curiosity and your value-add to this community, but don’t for a second think I don’t see your veil.[/QUOTE]

No veil just safe browsing, for obvious reasons like visiting forums filled with stalkers like KF. Most of my posts aren’t so much anti KF as they are questioning their methods and wondering if this is a new form of bullshido. Just the ones from the Ron Collins thread, and these couple. I wouldn’t call this a crusade as much as something worthy of Bullshido discussion. Do you disagree? This is the BS, Skepticism, Stupidity thread, so this isn’t a good topic? If not, I will totally tone it down and not bring them up again. But it’s all kind of newsworthy, I thought.

IIRC I was accused of being a lolcow almost immediately by AR, simply for pointing out that KF was being used multiple times in a MABs thread and that it’s a stalking site with a really bad reputation for facts. I realized that alone might have been enough to warrant their ire and wanted to chat about it with other bullies.

So yeah, chief, I am pretty fired up about contributing to Bullshido by starting a discussion about the dangers of KF. Bullshido is the right place to discuss online cults, isn’t it? Are you worried it’ll bring KF trolls to Bullshido? If so, why. The traffic would be rad. If you feel this would only enflame tensions or get Bullshido attacked by Weev or Anonymous or other trolls, then feel free to delete the whole thing, and please accept my sincerest apologies. I am not here to cause any toruble.

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[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984896]No veil just safe browsing, for obvious reasons like visiting forums filled with stalkers like KF. Most of my posts aren’t so much anti KF as they are questioning their methods and wondering if this is a new form of bullshido. Just the ones from the Ron Collins thread, and these couple. I wouldn’t call this a crusade as much as something worthy of Bullshido discussion. Do you disagree?

I was accused of being a lolcow almost immediately by AR, simply for pointing out that KF was being used multiple times in a MABs thread and that it’s a stalking site.

So yeah, chief, I am pretty fired up about contributing to Bullshido by starting a discussion about the dangers of KF. Are you worried it’ll bring KF trolls to Bullshido? If so, why.[/QUOTE]

First, to my memory, I raised the flag, and AR chimed in.

Second, I’m a little bit technically inclined, so if you would care to share a bit about your “safe browsing,” practices in a PM to me, that would go a ways towards earning some trust.

I’m not worried about KFers coming here. Bullshit is bullshit. I’m calling bullshit on you starting an anti-KF crusade, here. You are on a vendetta, your post history confirms that truth. We’re not in the business of starting wars with other communities.

8

I only learned most about the site while reading the Ron Collins posts and recalled reading about it the first time there was a suicide involved with KF. I have nothing to do with KF, before or after this discussion. Never read a single KF post until last weeks or so when BackFistMonkey pointed out it was being spammed.

I read the link, remembered the news story, and posted it. Got trolled in MABs by April (who was also trolling others) for questioning the source who then started a whole Trollshido side topic that I was a lolcow from KF. I’m not, and I can’t ever prove a negative like that so what more can I say? I joined and was posting here before I ever brought up KF…

I had a feeling it was because of past forum wars like map. In fact I regretted not mentioning that earlier. Ok, I guess in retrospect, a site like KF will dig its own grave and doesn’t need a proper Bullshido debate. I thought it was good forum chow.

9

[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984896]No veil just safe browsing, for obvious reasons like visiting forums filled with stalkers like KF.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984901]I only learned most about the site while reading the Ron Collins posts and recalled reading about it the first time there was a suicide involved with KF. I have nothing to do with KF, before or after this discussion. Never read a single KF post until last weeks or so when BackFistMonkey pointed out it was being spammed.

I read the link, remembered the news story, and posted it. Got trolled in MABs by April (who was also trolling others) for questioning the source who then started a whole Trollshido side topic that I was a lolcow from KF. I’m not, and I can’t ever prove a negative like that so what more can I say? I joined and was posting here before I ever brought up KF…[/QUOTE]

I find these statements to be contradictory.

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[QUOTE=submessenger;2984902]I find these statements to be contradictory.[/QUOTE]

I don’t understand. I use a proxy to avoid my ISP or Google marketing spying on me, that’s all. Everybody does it, you too right? KF was a side topic that became interesting to me when I got accused by a Bully just for pointing out it was a stalking forum.

To be completely clear, I have no involvement with KF in any way, other than discussing them here recently. If somebody has some evidence I’ve got a “vendetta” against KF for some reason, please present it. I’d love to see it.

11

Here is what I think is going on. None of this is based on anything other than pure assumption, speculation, and intrigue.

I think the Kiwi Farms is looking for a web forum to have a beef with. Just for the sake of having one. So they recruited MrBeaj to come on here and create an account. Then AprilRains would come on here and post something for MrBJ to freak out about. Those two would start arguing and we the people of Bullshido would pile on with MrBJ. Next thing you know we have a Bullshido vs Farm war.

The only problem is that pretty much no one on here gives a shit about what the farms do. I mean even remotely despite MrBJ posting multiple sources of information about the sketchy stuff they do. Which would probably incite the fight, if anyone cared.

The other thing is that MrBeaj tends to speak for the members of Bullshido a lot in his posts. All the royal We statements all over the place. Despite your claims of being a long time lurker, you have been a member here for a solid couple weeks. Now let me use the royal we since I’ve been a member for 10 years. Half the time we don’t agree with each other on what the color of the sky is. We definitely will not all agree on the statements you are making on behalf of us.

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[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984903]I don’t understand. I use a proxy to avoid my ISP or Google marketing spying on me, that’s all. Everybody does it, you too right?[/quote]
No I fuck with data collection with a whole slew of methods.

KF was a side topic that became interesting to me when I got accused by a Bully just for pointing out it was a stalking forum.

To be completely clear, I have no involvement with KF in any way, other than discussing them here recently. If somebody has some evidence I’ve got a “vendetta” against KF for some reason, please present it. I’d love to see it.

No one said you did.

It is more likely you are a trolly little bitch from KF trying to fan some drama into life to get some attention. Get the fuck outa here.

Anyone who googles knows their issues. Those that don’t won’t ever see your post and to those that do… well your words have been immortalized. If they meant anything this post will be back with thanks in the future.

Let things progress naturally or I will personally assume you are an attention seeking psychic vampire.

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And I don’t use a proxy to do anything. I don’t even remotely know how to do that. HAHAHA!!

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[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984903]I don’t understand. I use a proxy to avoid my ISP or Google marketing spying on me, that’s all. Everybody does it, you too right? KF was a side topic that became interesting to me when I got accused by a Bully just for pointing out it was a stalking forum.

To be completely clear, I have no involvement with KF in any way, other than discussing them here recently. If somebody has some evidence I’ve got a “vendetta” against KF for some reason, please present it. I’d love to see it.[/QUOTE]

I’ll accept that you’re using a proxy service that unbeknownst to you is doing something nefarious, just share that information with me. I took an unofficial count, and something like 57% of your posts are directly involved with KF or AR (including this discussion). Combining those pieces of information paints a profile which is unflattering. I’m inviting you to convince me I’m wrong, either here or in PM. It has to be more than platitudes, though.

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[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984903]I use a proxy to avoid my ISP or Google marketing spying on me, that’s all. Everybody does it[/QUOTE]

Pretty much nobody does it, and the ones that do are way better at it than you, which is why you stick out like a sore thumb.

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[QUOTE=submessenger;2984907]I’ll accept that you’re using a proxy service that unbeknownst to you is doing something nefarious, just share that information with me. I took an unofficial count, and something like 57% of your posts are directly involved with KF or AR (including this discussion). Combining those pieces of information paints a profile which is unflattering. I’m inviting you to convince me I’m wrong, either here or in PM. It has to be more than platitudes, though.[/QUOTE]

I have less than 50 posts and the first half didn’t even involve AR or KF, they were about jiujitsu and my knee. Others were part of ARs derail into Trollshido, since he was trolling MABs and then me when I questioned his links. That’s the reason I made this thread: getting accused of being a lolcow made me realize how bullshido it was to engage in that sort of behavior. It’s all just conspiracy drama.

If the “profile” is that I’m an anti-KF crusader…no. Not an accurate profile. I won’t mention them ever again, if that’ll help you convince I have no agenda.

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[QUOTE=BackFistMonkey;2984905]
No one said you did.
[/quote]

Actually they did, which is why this thread exists. AR accused me of being involved somehow, and apparently, the mods may believe it. For all I know, you’re all mods on that site too.

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[QUOTE=Diesel_tke;2984904]
The other thing is that MrBeaj tends to speak for the members of Bullshido a lot in his posts. All the royal We statements all over the place. [/QUOTE]

I don’t think I’ve ever used the royal “We” here a single time, or spoken for the community, other than linking MABs stickies. You’re thinking of AR’s constant use of the royal “We”, which if you read his posts, he did about 500 times. “the statements you are making on behalf of us”, which statements? I’ve been referencing the Terms of Service only and investigation guidelines only.

Listen, Bullshido is bigger than just the people who post here. You know, Facebook kids don’t even create accounts here, they just troll Bullshido there.

I created an account here by the pool on vacation one day to bullshit about jiujitsu, that’s the honest truth. If I had any beef with KF, it would have been in my first posts.

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[QUOTE=MrBeaj;2984909]I have less than 50 posts and the first half didn’t even involve AR or KF, they were about jiujitsu and my knee. Others were part of ARs derail into Trollshido, since he was trolling MABs and then me when I questioned his links. That’s the reason I made this thread: getting accused of being a lolcow made me realize how bullshido it was to engage in that sort of behavior. It’s all just conspiracy drama.

If the “profile” is that I’m an anti-KF crusader…no. Not an accurate profile. I won’t mention them ever again, if that’ll help you convince I have no agenda.[/QUOTE]

You misunderstand - I think it’s a totally valid and worthwhile topic.

I’m questioning your motives.

I find it highly coincidental that you started posting here right before AR dropped some more stuff in Collins thread, that you totally triggered on that to the point you felt it worthy of creating a topic on KF, that you engage in browsing practices that KFers do, that you’ve been accused by a known KFer of being a KFer, and that your posts are more than not SEing. You don’t have to STFU about anything, I’m not here to tell you what you can or can’t say. I’m just really curious about you and what you’re trying to accomplish.

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[QUOTE=submessenger;2984908]Pretty much nobody does it, and the ones that do are way better at it than you, which is why you stick out like a sore thumb.[/QUOTE]

Amen sister.