I know this is a continuous heated debate. My question is why such dismissal, as all artists are aware all forms have there weaknesses and strength as mma has proven to be a true master/artist/fighter one must incorporate more than one art and every artist has including those that have chosen dance, yoga or gymnastics as their secondary. Unfortunately, every art has it’s “masters” that have made their personal interpretation and subsequently discredited that style, especially ma bjc zen being a prime example. I have read a lot of discussions on this forum and as much as it is debated, the only arts that deserve the criticism are the “new” styles, the worse MMA gyms, suffice to say there are legitimate ones, however the under skilled gyms out way them. I have trained and toiled with several arts and “sports” the one factor I have found in all the schools and gyms I have been to is it depends on the instructor you choose to train with and their linage. I am now choosing ninjutsu as the art of survival and self regulation. I have train in “self defense” in which, I have had to incorporate several styles to survive the street fights and in sport fighting under several styles, again, in which I used different factors from the styles I have learnt to go the rounds. My biggest issue is how can ninjutsu be dismissed as a martial art?
MABS to Trollshido.
This thread has been moved from the MABS forum to a home more fitting as it meets none of the criteria and is basically completely fucking stupid.
Welcome to the Bullshido JustinaFaze.
[QUOTE=JustinAFraze;3035424]My biggest issue is how can ninjutsu be dismissed as a martial art? [/QUOTE]
Because at best you’ll just be learning random Jujutsu waza with a smattering of random karate waza and at worst they’ll make you buy one of those movie ninja outfits.
“Ninjutsu” isn’t a ‘martial art’ in the same way that ‘nightclub bouncer’ isn’t a martial art.
So therefore MMA is not either as the art I am choosing to follow is one that is based and originated by gathering trained students from other arts?
LOL, the art is based on the form of all modern day MMA gyms
[QUOTE=JustinAFraze;3035429]So therefore MMA is not either as the art I am choosing to follow is one that is based and originated by gathering trained students from other arts?[/QUOTE]
Training for MMA sports is like training for boxing. It’s quite different than “Ninjutsu” in that you can go and fight under competitive rules and have the efficacy of your training tested.
Understand?
Unless you’re planning a night time raid on a neighboring farmstead you’re not going to know that your training is shit until someone is actively trying to reshape your body parts.
Understood, however, where is the understanding of the definition of martial and MMA is like boxing as the sport, yet the definition of MMA and what it is a sport IS a modern day version of wot ninjutsu started as, though, it was never and will never be a sport as it was used as a martial defense for the local communities in real life and yes hopefully will never be needed in today’s society as all martial arts stand with modern technology guns and drones. So back to the original question, how can this style be dismissed without dismissing ALL styles that are not sport?
Wabbit, kick the kratom habit.
[QUOTE=JustinAFraze;3035436]Understood, however, where is the understanding of the definition of martial and MMA is like boxing as the sport, yet the definition of MMA and what it is a sport IS a modern day version of wot ninjutsu started as, though, it was never and will never be a sport as it was used as a martial defense for the local communities in real life and yes hopefully will never be needed in today’s society as all martial arts stand with modern technology guns and drones. So back to the original question, how can this style be dismissed without dismissing ALL styles that are not sport?[/QUOTE]
If you can’t practice it at full speed with complete execution, meaning full contact with full resistance, it’s not a good martial art.
If you can’t get hit back, if you don’t have a good reason to wear a mouthpiece, and if the other guy isn’t trying to knock you out, choke you out or make you submit then you’re better off going to a different school. Your training isn’t preparing you for a real fight.
If you want to learn Jujutsu, go learn Jujutsu.
If you want to learn striking, there’s so many great places to do it.
If you want to learn how to be a modern warrior, join the military and go out for the Rangers , Special Forces or SEALs. This will be much, much harder than it sounds from what I hear.
If you want to learn to stalk pray, take up bow hunting. Take up night time bow hunting. Or take up extreme wildlife photography if you don’t want to hurt Bambi. I’m soft hearted like that, I can’t look into those big fawn eyes and pull the trigger. I’ll photo graph the little bastard though.
If you want to learn sword fighting, take up Kendo. See what I mean?
You’re trying to do something that is effectively just historical live action role playing and is likely to be filled with fallacies, anachronism and bad training. Because you’re not testing yourself in a rigorous or serious manner.
Wich wabbit and wot art? I have chosen a style to regulate my disciplines and am merely after the reason for the dismissal of a complete style when MMA is a new fad and recognised, yet, the eastern origin of MMA is dismissed? If you want self defense do self defense same for sport incorporating these using the form with the longest lineage appears the issue
I do hunt, have done other styles and am merely asking why the dismissal of a style that by reading history is the origins of MMA for life not sport. I do not fight and on the street due to political issues that all artists should know in Australia anyway, can not hit. One only has the rite to subdue or put the attacker on the ground. As for fallacies, anachronism and bad training, this comes down to the individual instructor not the style, a fact that is common knowledge.
I’m not phrasing this right or making the right arguments.
If you don’t practice against another person at full strength, you won’t know what part of your technique needs to be improved.
If your instructor didn’t test you at full strength, he won’t know either.
If your instructor is in a school and his form starts going to shit because he’s not getting full resistance, then he won’t know that his form has gotten sloppy.
Randori is the most valuable training tool you have but it can’t help you if you take out all the rough parts.
And again rigor of training is dependent on individual instructor and their perception of the important factors of the style. I have found this in the other styles I have trained in, I am not saying all lineages are good as with every style.
Wot I am saying is due to advertised examples and predisposition of artists who have not found the suitable instructor or lineage is no reason to completely dismiss a style, especially when “MMA is the sport”, yet, was developed from the same principle of this art!
As with a true MMA artist you should not take on a new style without mastering the techniques you need from other styles if you are after a specific technique choose the style for that I am perusing the art that simply unifies those techniques to strengthen my MMA ability, as long term students of any art know, mastery is more than physical?
OK.
I’m going to try one more time.
Your lineage is worthless. Your martial art sucks. It’s fucking terrible. You couldn’t fight mildew if your tag team partner was Mr. Clean.
Now prove me wrong by beating someone else from a more respectable fighting art.
Otherwise, you stink, your martial stinks and nobody needs to pay lip service to a bunch of 21st century white guys who claim to be ninjas.
You wanna talk legit lineage of Ninjistsu.
This is why I threw it in Trollshido. This has been beaten to death. There aren’t ninjas and your entire question is actually wrong because there isn’t a historic ninja art.
[QUOTE=JustinAFraze;3035442]And again rigor of training is dependent on individual instructor and their perception of the important factors of the style. I have found this in the other styles I have trained in, I am not saying all lineages are good as with every style.
Wot I am saying is due to advertised examples and predisposition of artists who have not found the suitable instructor or lineage is no reason to completely dismiss a style, especially when “MMA is the sport”, yet, was developed from the same principle of this art![/QUOTE]
HM,
just release the damn video.
If you want to be a ninja pursue a career in special forces or some other clandestine job where you sneak around and get shot at a lot. Like cattle rustling or narcotics.
If you want to be a badass h2h fighter go to a reputable gym with a successful fight team. (You’re in great place for quality referrals)
“Bujinkan” et al has none of those things. They have comfy socks and weird rope parties but they don’t have These Hands.
Fortunately other venues do.
There is a downside. Either legit or non-legit ninja game your training for both will be the same as for sport and even more unforgiving if do right.
You are correct it is/was simply a style that was used in the Japanese empire that incorporated trained artists from other styles and developed psychological attributes, nevertheless it uses this experience to enhance the individuals abilities, such as MMA trainers?
The issue is MMA trainers are recognized as martial arts gyms, yet, instructors that chose to follow a lineage from Eastern origins are not?
The unfortunate thing that everyone on here should know is that the non genuine far outweigh the genuine in all aspects of society and for the genuine few to be included with the majority is sad. Hence, such is life.
[QUOTE=JustinAFraze;3035448]You are correct it is/was simply a style that was used in the Japanese empire that incorporated trained artists from other styles and developed psychological attributes, nevertheless it uses this experience to enhance the individuals abilities, such as MMA trainers?[/QUOTE]
It was not. This is a complex topic but a very short answer:
“Ninjutsu” as it’s taught by anyone claiming the title today is absolutely not actual TMA as trained in feudal Japan. Unequivocally no.