[QUOTE=XmasSpiritedAway;2911938]So he has a winning MMA record? Because a single still picture doesn’t always tell a complete story.[/QUOTE]
I trained him for his first four fights. The last two fights he fought on the same night back-to-back and won both. In that promotion, which is a large one, he won the their heavy weight title. Despite the “official” stats he weighed right at 205 and most of his opponents came in around 240+.
After he won that title I stepped back and he continued for one more fight with under someone else where he got his first lost.
It might be interesting to note that after his first fight with me our group sent him out to Jackson’s MMA to live and train. He lived at the gym, they have/had a few dorms. He trained regularly with Jon Jones at that time, late 2010. He stayed there for 2 months and decided to come back because he said they were not doing anything different in training then we were. They also weren’t bringing up any new talent either so it didn’t make much sense to stay for any other reason.
After that we went for three more fights and like I said I stopped coaching him for MMA after his fourth fight.
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911937]Here is a pic of my student in his second MMA match. We NEVER sparred and he never had taken any punches or been in any fights his whole life until he was in the ring. The guy is fighting is a Marine and has his only lost to my student. After the match he came to my student and told him he had never been hit like that before.
This is just one example of many that I have experienced and if this can be achieved without sparring for me there is no real reason to do it.[/QUOTE]
Judging a teacher’s methods by his best students isn’t really the best way imo. There are people that have physical photographic-ish memories and ice water in their veins on competition day. They are the rare breed that could read a book with next to no other training and perform at a high level. Jermmy Horn, Evan Tanner Etc.,
I have had students/training partners like this. They are anomalies.
It’s best to get a cross section of how a school does as a whole and see how the non-gifted perform.
Also these are not high level competitions. The minor leagues in that area of the country are horrible compared to California, The tri-state area, or florida. Being a champion there could be a result of pure physicality,rather than skill.
The majority of the population will suck if they train like this. There’s a reason Special Forces do live fire drills. You fight like you practice.
Once you become a master of your disaplines you can just work on staying sharp.
[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2911943]Judging a teacher’s methods by his best students isn’t really the best way imo. There are people that have physical photographic-ish memories and ice water in their veins on competition day. They are the rare breed that could read a book with next to no other training and perform at a high level. Jermmy Horn, Evan Tanner Etc.,
I have had students/training partners like this. They are anomalies.
It’s best to get a cross section of how a school does as a whole and see how the non-gifted perform.
Also these are not high level competitions. The minor leagues in that area of the country are horrible compared to California, The tri-state area, or florida. Being a champion there could be a result of pure physicality,rather than skill.
The majority of the population will suck if they train like this. There’s a reason Special Forces do live fire drills. You fight like you practice.
Once you become a master of your disaplines you can just work on staying sharp.[/QUOTE]
So, in that case, we can judge Jackson’s MMA which trains hundreds and hundreds of people (or just about any other training gym) and say since they only had 12 champions they are marginally ok since the majority of their fighters are unknown and the others are probably anomalies.
You can go to any gym and fine a top percent that are truly good and the rest are just normal folks so does that mean their training method are just as mundane.
[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2911943]Judging a teacher’s methods by his best students isn’t really the best way imo. There are people that have physical photographic-ish memories and ice water in their veins on competition day. They are the rare breed that could read a book with next to no other training and perform at a high level. Jermmy Horn, Evan Tanner Etc.,
I have had students/training partners like this. They are anomalies.
It’s best to get a cross section of how a school does as a whole and see how the non-gifted perform.
Also these are not high level competitions. The minor leagues in that area of the country are horrible compared to California, The tri-state area, or florida. Being a champion there could be a result of pure physicality,rather than skill.
The majority of the population will suck if they train like this. There’s a reason Special Forces do live fire drills. You fight like you practice.
Once you become a master of your disaplines you can just work on staying sharp.[/QUOTE]
You also missed the point where I said we flew him out to Jackson’s MMA and he trained daily with Jon Jones with no issues what so ever. But, of course, this just happens to be my only success in coaching and this guy is an anomaly and blah blah blah.
Yes, my student is a great guy with a great heart. I am sure he would do well anywhere as would any of my students. I guess I am just a magnet for great students.
People swore that if I ever put out a fighter with my methods they would be seriously hurt and it would be a disaster.
Then I put out a fighter that I trained from scratch only using my methods. That fighter went undefeated against solid fighters that had previous experience.
And then they said it was a fluke.
The truth is people believe what they want and feel comfortable believing and in that world I am just a guy saying maybe its flat and not round.
“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911944]So, in that case, we can judge Jackson’s MMA which trains hundreds and hundreds of people (or just about any other training gym) and say since they only had 12 champions they are marginally ok since the majority of their fighters are unknown and the others are probably anomalies.
You can go to any gym and fine a top percent that are truly good and the rest are just normal folks so does that mean their training method are just as mundane.[/QUOTE]
When the normal folks do well it’s a good gym. When the lawyers,nurses and carpenters are also skilled martial artists the training methods are strong. The Gracie Academy, Reno Gracie Academy, Gracie Barra, ATT , AKA, Xtreme Couture and many muay thai and boxing gyms are evidence of this.
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911946]You also missed the point where I said we flew him out to Jackson’s MMA and he trained daily with Jon Jones with no issues what so ever. But, of course, this just happens to be my only success in coaching and this guy is an anomaly and blah blah blah.
Yes, my student is a great guy with a great heart. I am sure he would do well anywhere as would any of my students. I guess I am just a magnet for great students.[/QUOTE]
It’s become sort of an axiom, here, you will never be as good in reality as your worst day training. Reality introduces stresses that training can’t or won’t. So, when you say you don’t spar or compete, well, let’s just say it raises questions that are begging for answers. If I could skip training altogether and still be a force to be reckoned with, I definitely would.
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911947]People swore that if I ever put out a fighter with my methods they would be seriously hurt and it would be a disaster.
Then I put out a fighter that I trained from scratch only using my methods. That fighter went undefeated against solid fighters that had previous experience.
And then they said it was a fluke.
The truth is people believe what they want and feel comfortable believing and in that world I am just a guy saying maybe its flat and not round.
“You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it.”[/QUOTE]
Are you stating that you acted as the primary trainer for a fighter to go into an MMA match,
even though you yourself have never competed in MMA, boxing, kickboxing, high level grappling, nor all of the above yourself?
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911946]You also missed the point where I said we flew him out to Jackson’s MMA and he trained daily with Jon Jones with no issues what so ever. But, of course, this just happens to be my only success in coaching and this guy is an anomaly and blah blah blah.
Yes, my student is a great guy with a great heart. I am sure he would do well anywhere as would any of my students. I guess I am just a magnet for great students.[/QUOTE]
You also seem to be so knowledgeable about jiu jitsu after 25 years of studying Jiu-Jitsu you are a blue belt. You sound like someone with solid creditability.
I started training my students differently. When they would go compete with people from hard sparring schools they usually beat them. Over the years my students consistently did better than people who regularly sparred so I came to believe in the method.
Who are these other than Mr. Amey students of yours you’re talking about?
[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2911948]When the normal folks do well it’s a good gym. When the lawyers,nurses and carpenters are also skilled martial artists the training methods are strong. The Gracie Academy, Reno Gracie Academy, Gracie Barra, ATT , AKA, Xtreme Couture and many muay thai and boxing gyms are evidence of this.[/QUOTE]
I get what you are saying and have no issue with it. But think, who are they doing well against? Each other?
When people train alike and then agree to the same rules for competition and you get a winner and a loser the winner and their methods are acclaimed for being good and even the loser to some extent because if you belittle the loser to much you take away from the win itself.
Does anyone else see the system at play here? The fact that 99% of people that compete against each other train in the same or similar manner means that saying that all the winners in x sport train this way so its the “right” way is simply a very un-scientific statement, imo.
I am not a scientist so my opinion matters little here I know but shouldn’t we test methods. The issue with any art, system or sport is that eventually the popularity of the thing destroys its progression at some point.
I remember Royce saying “the winning team doesn’t change” when he was asked if he would change or adapt his training methods for future fights. Well for the most part groups like his didn’t change and now we can see that the top levels of the fighting sport a have fewer and fewer people from that group specifically. Does that mean that their method is bad now? Of course not.
Back when I was saying sparring wasn’t the most effective way to train NO ONE was in my corner. Now everyone from Joe Rogan to Donald Cerrone says that sparring may not be the best way to train. I am not saying I came up with it for sure. Of course “any good gym now says too much sparring is bad” but back when I was saying we spar very little or not at all everyone lost their minds on me.
[QUOTE=Nutcracker, sweet;2911949]It’s become sort of an axiom, here, you will never be as good in reality as your worst day training. Reality introduces stresses that training can’t or won’t. So, when you say you don’t spar or compete, well, let’s just say it raises questions that are begging for answers. If I could skip training altogether and still be a force to be reckoned with, I definitely would.
TLDR version: You got magic? I want some.[/QUOTE]
The truth is the mind doesn’t learn as effectively when trying to do so under stress. When presented with stress or the fear of injury they brains functions divert much more to trying to relieve the situation then it does to learn through it. You can google this for people more qualified than me that have waxed long on the facts of the matter.
The people capable of resisting a chain of takedowns and the onslaught that follows without extensive sparing are so few and far between its ridiculous.
The people that are capable of being struck repeatedly and not turning away without training live (see Lesnar,Brock) are few and far between.
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911954]The truth is the mind doesn’t learn as effectively when trying to do so under stress. When presented with stress or the fear of injury they brains functions divert much more to trying to relieve the situation then it does to learn through it. [/QUOTE]
Right.
Now, what about stress exposure in training to avoid performance degradation under pressure?
[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2911951]You also seem to be so knowledgeable about jiu jitsu after 25 years of studying Jiu-Jitsu you are a blue belt. You sound like someone with solid creditability.[/QUOTE]
Yeah we are not all as “amazing” as some people. My path was different but not my chosen ideal. I started training in 95 under a Royce student but when I was medically discharged from the Navy that training ended. Then I started with Carlos Machado and two years in I went through a divorce and my life turned upside down so I had to step away from his organization.
Next I trained with Carlos Lemos from Barra but he couldn’t get a work visa to stay. And on and on and on. Meanwhile my first student and black belt in my system became a 2nd degree BB under Gustavo Machado and owns his own gym. Other students are brown belts and even the student pictured here is about to be promoted to brown belt.
I am slacker I guess Rayce. You got your BB this year right? I only got my first degree back in 1994 after 13 years of day-in-day-out training. I didn’t get married in my gi though, slacking again.
Oh, but I did get my 5th in Karate, 2nd in Daito ryu and I am working on my Purple now.
Pics or it didn’t happen right?
(funny note: this first one is at Ray Thompson’s Upstate Karate Gym in 1998, when Wonderboy was still just a little boy. We trained there three times and I even took Rob and Guy Pendergrass there with me to meet Carlos - you know the Pendergrass bros they are the ones who said they couldn’t say much about my training although I gave them my custom swain mat when I shut my 2400 sqft gym down after my divorce in 2001)
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911953]I get what you are saying and have no issue with it. But think, who are they doing well against? Each other?
When people train alike and then agree to the same rules for competition and you get a winner and a loser the winner and their methods are acclaimed for being good and even the loser to some extent because if you belittle the loser to much you take away from the win itself.
Does anyone else see the system at play here? The fact that 99% of people that compete against each other train in the same or similar manner means that saying that all the winners in x sport train this way so its the “right” way is simply a very un-scientific statement, imo.
I am not a scientist so my opinion matters little here I know but shouldn’t we test methods. The issue with any art, system or sport is that eventually the popularity of the thing destroys its progression at some point.
I remember Royce saying “the winning team doesn’t change” when he was asked if he would change or adapt his training methods for future fights. Well for the most part groups like his didn’t change and now we can see that the top levels of the fighting sport a have fewer and fewer people from that group specifically. Does that mean that their method is bad now? Of course not.
Back when I was saying sparring wasn’t the most effective way to train NO ONE was in my corner. Now everyone from Joe Rogan to Donald Cerrone says that sparring may not be the best way to train. I am not saying I came up with it for sure. Of course “any good gym now says too much sparring is bad” but back when I was saying we spar very little or not at all everyone lost their minds on me.[/QUOTE]
Regarding Royce: The rules of the game changed. It’s no longer the same game. Bad example
Boxers and Muay Thai fighters have been proponents of light striking sparring and heavy pad work for years. Sparring is not a full contact fight but is still sparring.
However grappling is also sparring. Do you believe in sparring for grappling?
[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2911958]Regarding Royce: The rules of the game changed. It’s no longer the same game. Bad example
Boxers and Muay Thai fighters have been proponents of light striking sparring and heavy pad work for years. Sparring is not a full contact fight but is still sparring.
However grappling is also sparring. Do you believe in sparring for grappling?[/QUOTE]
True. The Karate gym I trained and taught at had 5 World ISKA Champions in it. A lot of “my ideas” started from those days. I am a product of my training and nothing more although I feel the onus to push forward and always look for better ways to train.
The game always changes so we must as well or die where we stand.
I don’t believe in sparring at all and that includes grappling.
I do believe in training grappling with strikes and do so to keep it real but always playful.
That kind of “rolling” only comes after a long time of study and drills and is the smallest percentage of the training however.
Jack Dempsey wrote in his book that when training a fighter you should not teach them to defend first or they will always spend there time defending. I think there is a true gem in that statement. If you spar to train, fight to train, then you are just trying to learn not to get hit instead of how to hit.
As for degradation of performance once under real stress, the factors are truly marginal from what I have seen. There is no reason to spend 80% of the time training for the 5% negative IMO.
[QUOTE=questbrinn;2911957]Yeah we are not all as “amazing” as some people. My path was different but not my chosen ideal. I started training in 95 under a Royce student but when I was medically discharged from the Navy that training ended. Then I started with Carlos Machado and two years in I went through a divorce and my life turned upside down so I had to step away from his organization.
Next I trained with Carlos Lemos from Barra but he couldn’t get a work visa to stay. And on and on and on. Meanwhile my first student and black belt in my system became a 2nd degree BB under Gustavo Machado and owns his own gym. Other students are brown belts and even the student pictured here is about to be promoted to brown belt.
I am slacker I guess Rayce. You got your BB this year right? I only got my first degree back in 1994 after 13 years of day-in-day-out training. I didn’t get married in my gi though, slacking again.
Oh, but I did get my 5th in Karate, 2nd in Daito ryu and I am working on my Purple now.
Pics or it didn’t happen right?
(funny note: this first one is at Ray Thompson’s Upstate Karate Gym in 1998, when Wonderboy was still just a little boy. We trained there three times and I even took Rob and Guy Pendergrass there with me to meet Carlos - you know the Pendergrass bros they are the ones who said they couldn’t say much about my training although I gave them my custom swain mat when I shut my 2400 sqft gym down after my divorce in 2001)[/QUOTE]
Also talking about my Facebook pictures and instagram pictures like you know me now just makes you come across as a Fucking tool
This proves you went to seminars. Where did you train with Royce?
