Oh, and as to “tuning”, a well bedded rifle won’t need that in all likelihood. The harmonic whatever type, that is. There is usually other stuff to do to a rifle, old or otherwise, that won’t group well before you get to that point.
Browning made the B.O.S.S. and put them on commercial rifles.
Ming,
If you’re going to do a lot of dry firing, get yourself a snap cap. Even a little dry firing, get yourself a cap.
Your firing pin will appreciate the small investment. You can afix a small flashlight and practice against a wall in the dark. A good way for beginners to establish a nice squeeeeeze vs nasty pull of the trigger.
Never tried the one linked below, but you get the idea.
Adding one vote for .308
another range day. found out the owner of the range has an old bolt action winchester .22 with peep sights that he’ll let me use (first time using them) and i think i’ll keep using this rifle. working on keeping my cheek on the butt of the rifle as i load the next round, and on my breathing.
my last group of 10 standing with my shoulder resting on the wall (sorry about the photo quality) i thought this was pretty good, i think the two outliers were at the end, as my left arm was getting tired and started to move more.
i found a guy in long island who can order me a savage rifle, so i’m gonna start with my own bolt .22 and shoot it this summer at 100-200 yards, then we’ll see where it goes.
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2877875]another range day. found out the owner of the range has an old bolt action winchester .22 with peep sights that he’ll let me use (first time using them) and i think i’ll keep using this rifle. working on keeping my cheek on the butt of the rifle as i load the next round, and on my breathing.
my last group of 10 standing with my shoulder resting on the wall (sorry about the photo quality) i thought this was pretty good, i think the two outliers were at the end, as my left arm was getting tired and started to move more.
i found a guy in long island who can order me a savage rifle, so i’m gonna start with my own bolt .22 and shoot it this summer at 100-200 yards, then we’ll see where it goes.[/QUOTE]
Bolt action .22 rimfire at 100 to 200 yards ? You will be disappoint, especially if there is any wind at all. Most won’t shoot accurately enough at that range, for a variety of reasons, to make it worth your while. In other words, you may well be able to hold better than the rifle can shoot.
Unless you mean .223 remington, in which case, you will be good to go.
i guess using the .22 as a trainer tops out at 100yards then. i’ll get a .223 as well.
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2877910]i guess using the .22 as a trainer tops out at 100yards then. i’ll get a .223 as well.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BKR;2877922][/QUOTE]
har har 
you know the real reason i have $$ to spend on hobbies is that my wife and i both work good jobs in tech, and we don’t have kids (or plan to.)
Forget about recoil and forget about the bench. With a bench wverything feels more stronger and you’ll develop a flinch. Shoot prone, you can move your body more comfortably in a better position where you can see through the scope perfectly (no black areas). Relax and take small breaths, shoot once you’ve exhaled but dont rush the shot. Gently squeeze the trigger, the bang should come as a surprize.
A lighter trigger is good, the heavier it is the harder the squeeze and you’ll end up pulling it. Pulling is aggressive and the small movment can impact your grouping down range. If your thinking about getting a remington, get the 700 police model. Its got a heavy barrel and is 26" from memory.
You need 26" as a minimum for long range work. Basically the powder needs to be fully burnt by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. Otherwise down range it wont have enough velocity and your groups wont be tight.
I shoot 600 yards often and at that range i can hit the target and get an average score but ill never do well because my barrel length is under 26". The guys i shoot with all compete.
The whole ‘sniper’ thing is somerhing that makes me cringe. Varminting will fill the gap. Varminting is basically smashing small critters like bunnies ect at some distance without wanting to harvest them. You wont be doing this at 500+ yards, firstly you probably wont see something small and secondly if you do the margian for error is bigger.
As for longe range ‘hunting’ im totally against it. You’ll miss at 600+ on a deer that may be moving and if you hit it it’ll be wounded and not good. If you some how magic bullet its ass unless its an open grass field how the fuck you gonna see your kill through thick forest.
Met a guy at this shitty range i went to last. Rekons he bought a sako rifle, didnt know what model and said it was “a longe range thing 338 magnum” (im guessing it was a lapua). And how he was gonna shoot deer with it. I shook my head and walked off. He had his kid on a spotting scope and was yelling at him saying he was spotting wrong cos he couldnt hit his target at 200yard.
I hope that prick never gets anything. Chances are in the aussie bush he wont see past 30 yards with his big rifle with the hubble telescope on it.
[QUOTE=Kravbizarre;2878033]Forget about recoil and forget about the bench. With a bench wverything feels more stronger and you’ll develop a flinch. Shoot prone, you can move your body more comfortably in a better position where you can see through the scope perfectly (no black areas). Relax and take small breaths, shoot once you’ve exhaled but dont rush the shot. Gently squeeze the trigger, the bang should come as a surprize.
A lighter trigger is good, the heavier it is the harder the squeeze and you’ll end up pulling it. Pulling is aggressive and the small movment can impact your grouping down range. If your thinking about getting a remington, get the 700 police model. Its got a heavy barrel and is 26" from memory.
You need 26" as a minimum for long range work. Basically the powder needs to be fully burnt by the time the bullet leaves the barrel. Otherwise down range it wont have enough velocity and your groups wont be tight.
I shoot 600 yards often and at that range i can hit the target and get an average score but ill never do well because my barrel length is under 26". The guys i shoot with all compete.
The whole ‘sniper’ thing is somerhing that makes me cringe. Varminting will fill the gap. Varminting is basically smashing small critters like bunnies ect at some distance without wanting to harvest them. You wont be doing this at 500+ yards, firstly you probably wont see something small and secondly if you do the margian for error is bigger.
As for longe range ‘hunting’ im totally against it. You’ll miss at 600+ on a deer that may be moving and if you hit it it’ll be wounded and not good. If you some how magic bullet its ass unless its an open grass field how the fuck you gonna see your kill through thick forest.
Met a guy at this shitty range i went to last. Rekons he bought a sako rifle, didnt know what model and said it was “a longe range thing 338 magnum” (im guessing it was a lapua). And how he was gonna shoot deer with it. I shook my head and walked off. He had his kid on a spotting scope and was yelling at him saying he was spotting wrong cos he couldnt hit his target at 200yard.
I hope that prick never gets anything. Chances are in the aussie bush he wont see past 30 yards with his big rifle with the hubble telescope on it.[/QUOTE]
So, tell me more about powder not being all burned unless you have a 26" barrel…we talking black powder or smokeless ?
[QUOTE=BKR;2878048]So, tell me more about powder not being all burned unless you have a 26" barrel…we talking black powder or smokeless ?[/QUOTE]
Smokeless handloads (loads that average 3000fps mv). Long distance comp shooting is as much an art as it is a science. If your hoping to hit a gong at 600yd plus thats achievable with a basic rifle and packet ammo. If you want tight groups its time consuming and costly. Know a guy in the state team for target shooting, the lengths those guys go to, to perfect a handload are incredible. By target shooting i mean the dicipline and not the generic term. I prefere f/tr myself.
[QUOTE=Kravbizarre;2878049]Smokeless handloads (loads that average 3000fps mv). Long distance comp shooting is as much an art as it is a science. If your hoping to hit a gong at 600yd plus thats achievable with a basic rifle and packet ammo. If you want tight groups its time consuming and costly. Know a guy in the state team for target shooting, the lengths those guys go to, to perfect a handload are incredible. By target shooting i mean the dicipline and not the generic term. I prefere f/tr myself.[/QUOTE]
OK, so you do understand that all of the powder in “smokeless load” is burned in the first few inches of the barrel in front of the chamber, correct ? And that the peak pressure is reached thereabouts as well, if not sooner ? Which means no more powder is burning…
I’m not sure how much trouble Ming Loyalist is willing to go to, however, his trove of Jew gold appears to be quite large. If he gets a Savage in a standard rifle, that will keep him busy for a while. If he wanted to put on a new, longer and/or heavier/more expensive barrel, that’s relatively simple/cheap (depending on how expensive the barrel is…Krieger, Douglas, Shilen, et al. can get pricey).
The Remington 700s seem to come standard with a 24" barrel in the “normal” models in .308 Win.
My chronograph values tell a different story bud. Before you say its twist rate and longer barrel my shorter barrel rifle has a faster twist funnily enough
[QUOTE=Kravbizarre;2878054]My chronograph values tell a different story bud. Before you say its twist rate and longer barrel my shorter barrel rifle has a faster twist funnily enough[/QUOTE]
It’s not the powder burning that causes velocity to increase with increasing barrel length (up to a certain point), it’s the force of the still expanding gasses that resulted from the powder burning pushing the bullet down the bore. If you stretched the barrel long enough, the bullet would start slowing down.
And in fact, in a .223 Rem./5.56 NATO, you can see that happen. If you look in the latest issue of Guns and Ammo, a guy started out with a 26 or 28" barrel on an AR, and cut off an inch at a time. In fact, the MV increased as he cut the barrel down. If I recall correctly, 20" barrel was about optimal in terms of velocity.
So yeah, I’m sure your 26" barrel ends up with a higher MV than a shorter barrel if you are shooting a .308 or whatever (besides a .223). But it’s not due to all the powder burning or not.
Now, in a black powder muzzle loader, yeah, longer barrel equals more powder burned, and more velocity, up to a certain point anyway, depending on bore diameter, etc.
[QUOTE=BKR;2878056]It’s not the powder burning that causes velocity to increase with increasing barrel length (up to a certain point), it’s the force of the still expanding gasses that resulted from the powder burning pushing the bullet down the bore. If you stretched the barrel long enough, the bullet would start slowing down.
And in fact, in a .223 Rem./5.56 NATO, you can see that happen. If you look in the latest issue of Guns and Ammo, a guy started out with a 26 or 28" barrel on an AR, and cut off an inch at a time. In fact, the MV increased as he cut the barrel down. If I recall correctly, 20" barrel was about optimal in terms of velocity.
So yeah, I’m sure your 26" barrel ends up with a higher MV than a shorter barrel if you are shooting a .308 or whatever (besides a .223). But it’s not due to all the powder burning or not.
Now, in a black powder muzzle loader, yeah, longer barrel equals more powder burned, and more velocity, up to a certain point anyway, depending on bore diameter, etc.[/QUOTE]
science’d
[QUOTE=BKR;2878056]It’s not the powder burning that causes velocity to increase with increasing barrel length (up to a certain point), it’s the force of the still expanding gasses that resulted from the powder burning pushing the bullet down the bore. If you stretched the barrel long enough, the bullet would start slowing down.
[/QUOTE]
Well that settles that then. It appears i have been misinformed by some of the old dudes at the club i go to. Bottom line still remains, you need a longer barrel for long range work.
+1
[QUOTE=Kravbizarre;2878063]Well that settles that then. It appears i have been misinformed by some of the old dudes at the club i go to. Bottom line still remains, you need a longer barrel for long range work.
+1[/QUOTE]
Why ? If it’s to get a bit more velocity, sure, I’d go along with that, depending on real, measured results.
On the other hand, shorter barrels tend to be more accurate, other things being equal, because they are stiffer.
this is turning into a training log thread (maybe i should start one) but there are some updates. NYC can make this sort of thing more complex than it should be. i may have to wait 3 months after i get my pistol/rife/shotgun license before i can buy a rifle (we’re limited to one firearm every 90 days, and i have to buy a pistol first) if I register it in NYC. if i want to leave it in Long Island full time that’s not a problem, but i may need to prove residency at my own mother’s house before i can leave a rifle there full time. so i may be stuck shooting skeet with my stepdad and renting rifles for the immediate future.
had a good day at the range, these are my last 40 rounds, free standing shooting, my best groups yet.
I do some 500 yard and in shooting, mostly in the 100-300 yard range. I do it primarily with a Savage 18" barreled .308 action that I dropped into a an XLR Industries Element Chassis and topped off with an inexpensive but solid Primary Arms 4-14 FFP scope. I’m still trying to decide what ammunition to feed it. So far, 175 gr federal gold medal match is grouping about half MOA if I do my part. It’s a great rifle, and I don’t regret going with the 18" barrel. In fact, I am glad I did, since the lower velocities mean I am learning to deal with wind and other speed bumps that arise at long range, and that was the point of building an inexpensive but nice long distance rifle.
XLR Element Chassis:
https://xlrindustries.com/collections/chassis/products/element-chassis
I do some long range shooting with the custom SPR-ish AR15 I built for myself. It isn’t as accurate as the bolt gun, but it does well with heavier bullets so I can ring steel just fine past 300 yards.
I have an inexpensive 16" .357mag/.38spl Rossi levergun that I try to shoot out to 200-300 yards with. My eyesight isn’t all that great, but I am improving slowly and can ring steel out to 200 yards with mediocre .38 special ammo about half the time. .357 extends me out to 300 yards, but I’d probably need better open sights or an optic to really be accurate. I’ll tell you what, though. People typically ignore me when I am shooting the first two rifles I mentioned, but they sure get friendly when the levergun comes out. Everyone loves shooting a levergun.
Finally, I have a Ruger 10/22 that I am considering gutting and accurizing for training purposes. If I don’t, I will eventually buy another one to do that to, since .22lr is finally starting to become available again. I can get 325 rounds of .22lr for about 5-10 bucks more than it costs me for a box of 20 rounds of 175gr gold medal match, and it works just fine inside 200 yards for learning to read the wind, compensating for bullet drop, etc.
I’ll probably start taking classes eventually, but I have been able to accomplish quite a bit drawing on what I was taught in the military, help of more experienced friends who actually attended sniper school or SOTIC, lots of dry firing, and internet forums/youtube.
P.S. - if you have never shot steel targets, you really need to try it. So much fun. If I’m at a range that allows it, I always do a bit of that as relaxation before and after I start trying to shoot small groups.
i bought a savage FLCP in .223 with a 24" barrel, used, and should be getting my hands on it in a couple of weeks. I can start by shooting that up to 300 yards, and hopefully by fall I’ll be able to take it out to 600 yards at another range upstate.
thanks for the advice!
[QUOTE=Ming Loyalist;2881862]i bought a savage FLCP in .223 with a 24" barrel, used, and should be getting my hands on it in a couple of weeks. I can start by shooting that up to 300 yards, and hopefully by fall I’ll be able to take it out to 600 yards at another range upstate.
thanks for the advice![/QUOTE]I’m not sure I gave you much usable advice, but here is some: if your rifle can handle it, look for Black Hills Sierra Tipped Matchking ammo if you’re wanting to shoot beyond 500 yards. The non-tipped Black Hills Sierra Matchkings aren’t quite as efficient and drop more, but they are also awesome. They even sell reloads that are chambered to .223 instead of 5.56 pressures that are a lot cheaper than the brand new stuff. I think Midway USA usually has the reloads in stock, assuming you’re allowed to ship to NY.
I know someone mentioned 6.5 Creedmoor in this thread, and it and other wind cheaters are awesome after you have learned to deal with wind, bullet drop, etc. But they are also barrel burners. A barrel chambered in .308 or maybe even .223 depending on how hot your ammo is will have an order of magnitude more life than 6.5, .243, .260, etc. That said, match grade 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is not really any more expensive than match grade .308 ammo, so that lessens the sting a little if and when you do upgrade.