I encourage all BJJ students to cross train in other grappling, striking, firearms, &

Martial Arts Training Forums The Armory: Weapons, Military, LEO, and Self Defen
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I encourage all BJJ students to cross train in other grappling, striking, firearms, & other weapon arts.

Learn wrestling, learn Judo, learn Sambo, learn catch wrestling, learn boxing, learn thai boxing (if you can take it), learn the Savate point of view, for damn sure learn firearms which are the core of modern martial arts, and spend at least a little time with arts like fencing, Kali, Kendo, Combat de canne, and Dog Brothers.

If you are a black belt in BJJ, and you have no exposure to other areas of martial combat, then you may not realize what you are missing.

In the movie Rocky, “Mick” has “Rocky” chase a chicken. A useful drill that does not look like boxing, but may have something useful hidden within it for boxing.
Similarly, nothing teaches distance management (which is useful for the clinch) like hand to hand weapon arts.
And firearms are a very useful self-defense area to practice…

You do not not need to be an expert in all areas. As we know from BJJ, being expert in a few areas, and having a good grasp of the basics is a common approach, that often shows good results.

But, train a little with the best teachers you can in all areas.

If you became good enough for a black belt in BJJ, then you have a fine foundation in a very useful area.

But, don’t miss an opportunity to learn from the good teachers that may come in your room to learn BJJ, who may themselves be experts in the other areas.

I remain a white belt for life, and I hope you do too.

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[QUOTE=WFMurphyPhD;2928391]I encourage all BJJ students to cross train in other grappling, striking, firearms, & other weapon arts.

Learn wrestling, learn Judo, learn Sambo, learn catch wrestling, learn boxing, learn thai boxing (if you can take it), learn the Savate point of view, for damn sure learn firearms which are the core of modern martial arts, and spend at least a little time with arts like fencing, Kali, Kendo, Combat de canne, and Dog Brothers.

If you are a black belt in BJJ, and you have no exposure to other areas of martial combat, then you may not realize what you are missing.

In the movie Rocky, “Mick” has “Rocky” chase a chicken. A useful drill that does not look like boxing, but may have something useful hidden within it for boxing.
Similarly, nothing teaches distance management (which is useful for the clinch) like hand to hand weapon arts.
And firearms are a very useful self-defense area to practice…

You do not not need to be an expert in all areas. As we know from BJJ, being expert in a few areas, and having a good grasp of the basics is a common approach, that often shows good results.

But, train a little with the best teachers you can in all areas.

If you became good enough for a black belt in BJJ, then you have a fine foundation in a very useful area.

But, don’t miss an opportunity to learn from the good teachers that may come in your room to learn BJJ, who may themselves be experts in the other areas.

I remain a white belt for life, and I hope you do too.[/QUOTE]

This is exceptionally good advice. WF is wise.

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Some BJJ schools work some rudimentary takedowns and distance closing skills.

Those skills are true to the promise of BJJ: You will be able to defeat a bigger stronger meaner opponent.

However, they won’t work if that person has training.

Your BJJ school may have other classes where you have an experienced striker or wrestler. That person should have years of specialized training in things like boxing and or MT. Boxing in a boxing camp with competitive boxers. You want your training in Wrestling to be from someone who coaches competitive wrestlers.

The question is, what about your BJJ training? You have been training in BJJ 3 times a week, 12 months of the year for 2 years. You even did some tournies. You are a solid Blue.

What you want to do is train your BJJ once a week to maintain your skill set. You want to train at least 2-3 times a week in your new M Art for a full 12 months. Lets say you do so in MT or boxing. You now have a solid base of skill sets. Switch to wrestling or Judo for a year, rinse repeat.

That is how you become well rounded.

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Some BJJ schools work some rudimentary takedowns and distance closing skills.

Those skills are true to the promise of BJJ: You will be able to defeat a bigger stronger meaner opponent.

However, they won’t work if that person has training.

Your BJJ school may have other classes where you have an experienced striker or wrestler. That person should have years of specialized training in things like boxing and or MT. Boxing in a boxing camp with competitive boxers. You want your training in Wrestling to be from someone who coaches competitive wrestlers.

The question is, what about your BJJ training? You have been training in BJJ 3 times a week, 12 months of the year for 2 years. You even did some tournies. You are a solid Blue.

What you want to do is train your BJJ once a week to maintain your skill set. You want to train at least 2-3 times a week in your new M Art for a full 12 months. Lets say you do so in MT or boxing. You now have a solid base of skill sets. Switch to wrestling or Judo for a year, rinse repeat.

That is how you become well rounded.

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[QUOTE=preschol;2928424]Some BJJ schools work some rudimentary takedowns and distance closing skills.

Those skills are true to the promise of BJJ: You will be able to defeat a bigger stronger meaner opponent.

However, they won’t work if that person has training.

Your BJJ school may have other classes where you have an experienced striker or wrestler. That person should have years of specialized training in things like boxing and or MT. Boxing in a boxing camp with competitive boxers. You want your training in Wrestling to be from someone who coaches competitive wrestlers.

The question is, what about your BJJ training? You have been training in BJJ 3 times a week, 12 months of the year for 2 years. You even did some tournies. You are a solid Blue.

What you want to do is train your BJJ once a week to maintain your skill set. You want to train at least 2-3 times a week in your new M Art for a full 12 months. Lets say you do so in MT or boxing. You now have a solid base of skill sets. Switch to wrestling or Judo for a year, rinse repeat.

That is how you become well rounded.[/QUOTE]

This is an awesome way to suck at everything.

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[QUOTE=preschol;2928424]
The question is, what about your BJJ training? You have been training in BJJ 3 times a week, 12 months of the year for 2 years. You even did some tournies. You are a solid Blue.
[/QUOTE]

news flash, thats not enough to be a blue belt anymore let alone a “solid” blue belt.

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[QUOTE=WFMurphyPhD;2928391]I encourage all BJJ students to cross train in other grappling, striking, firearms, & other weapon arts.[/QUOTE]

So Combat Sambo then? Good advice all around

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[QUOTE=preschol;2928424]Some BJJ schools work some rudimentary takedowns and distance closing skills.
[/QUOTE]

In research terminology (which I think you’ve established yourself as horrible at, so sorry about that), this is called a “vague count”. By using such ambiguous wording, you’re trying to make an argument that MOST BJJ schools don’t work on takedowns, distance, etc.

That’s bullshit. I know that not because I do BJJ, but because all almost all the BJJ people on this board would say: “that’s bullshit”. Mr. Ray just said it. I think it’s more fair (back me up somebody) to say that the better BJJ schools will provide more opportunities for well-rounded training depending on what you want to do (MMA, competition BJJ, etc).

Bad for “well rounded” is making up your own ideas of what ideal training should look/be/feel like, short of being an expert trainer yourself in all of the above.

You’re not an expert trainer in anything…right?

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[QUOTE=Pship Destroyer;2928596]In research terminology (which I think you’ve established yourself as horrible at, so sorry about that), this is called a “vague count”. By using such ambiguous wording, you’re trying to make an argument that MOST BJJ schools don’t work on takedowns, distance, etc.

That’s bullshit. I know that not because I do BJJ, but because all almost all the BJJ people on this board would say: “that’s bullshit”. Mr. Ray just said it. I think it’s more fair (back me up somebody) to say that the better BJJ schools will provide more opportunities for well-rounded training depending on what you want to do (MMA, competition BJJ, etc).

Bad for “well rounded” is making up your own ideas of what ideal training should look/be/feel like, short of being an expert trainer yourself in all of the above.

You’re not an expert trainer in anything…right?[/QUOTE]

This is in fact correct.

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[QUOTE=D Dempsey;2928587]So Combat Sambo then? Good advice all around[/QUOTE]

He didn’t say do it in fruity shorts, so it’s not sambo.
:-p

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Mullet Uniform

[QUOTE=Raycetpfl;2928598]He didn’t say do it in fruity shorts, so it’s not sambo.
:-p[/QUOTE]

It’s business up top, party down below.
I usually wear pants when we do the non-competitive Combat Sambo material… Usually

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[QUOTE=preschol;2928424]Some BJJ schools work some rudimentary takedowns and distance closing skills.

Those skills are true to the promise of BJJ: You will be able to defeat a bigger stronger meaner opponent.

However, they won’t work if that person has training.

Your BJJ school may have other classes where you have an experienced striker or wrestler. That person should have years of specialized training in things like boxing and or MT. Boxing in a boxing camp with competitive boxers. You want your training in Wrestling to be from someone who coaches competitive wrestlers.

The question is, what about your BJJ training? You have been training in BJJ 3 times a week, 12 months of the year for 2 years. You even did some tournies. You are a solid Blue.

What you want to do is train your BJJ once a week to maintain your skill set. You want to train at least 2-3 times a week in your new M Art for a full 12 months. Lets say you do so in MT or boxing. You now have a solid base of skill sets. Switch to wrestling or Judo for a year, rinse repeat.

That is how you become well rounded.[/QUOTE]

If I understand what you wrote correctly, you suggest that the “solid blue in BJJ” essentially go on maintenance for BJJ and train in say, Judo, for a year. Correct ?

And after a year of Judo, 3 times a week, I can guarantee that “solid blue belt” won’t be that great at Judo (although on the ground he would tie other beginners in knots), or swap in wrestling. Probably would be better at wrestling (as in school boy or free-style) after a year. And he will have lost some ground in BJJ more than likely.

For my judo students, I would have them do 2 days a week of BJJ and 2-3 days a week of Judo. They could go and wrestle as well if they wanted to do so, for something different, but Free Style would be better for them (IME with folk-free style and greco). 1 day a week of BJJ would be OK if it also had at least 45 minutes-hour of rolling and a lot of variety in training partners.

I think that going on maintenance in your base sport for a year at such a low level is not the best idea.

Striking is of course another animal, and not really necessary unless we are talking MMA or self defense.

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[QUOTE=Pship Destroyer;2928596]In research terminology (which I think you’ve established yourself as horrible at, so sorry about that), this is called a “vague count”. By using such ambiguous wording, you’re trying to make an argument that MOST BJJ schools don’t work on takedowns, distance, etc.

That’s bullshit. I know that not because I do BJJ, but because all almost all the BJJ people on this board would say: “that’s bullshit”. Mr. Ray just said it. I think it’s more fair (back me up somebody) to say that the better BJJ schools will provide more opportunities for well-rounded training depending on what you want to do (MMA, competition BJJ, etc).

Bad for “well rounded” is making up your own ideas of what ideal training should look/be/feel like, short of being an expert trainer yourself in all of the above.

You’re not an expert trainer in anything…right?[/QUOTE]

I think the specific question is about trying to prove/show in some quantitative way that wrestling is a better base for MMA (or maybe more successful) than BJJ/GJJ.

The problem is there are quite a few confounding factors, and prescol has glossed over them pretty handily, then gone on to claim he has ope-rationalized a study, blah blah blah.

It’s the old “fake it 'til you make it” trick.

But you knew that already, and I talk to myself quite a bit…

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It is really not that complicated.
Play to your strengths, but fit some time in to learn how to play or better deal with other models.
This is often a reasonable and complementary thing to do before getting a black belt.
But, it is a particularly good idea after you have a decade or two of fundamental experience in one area,
sometimes you learn a lot more, including distinctions that can be applied back into your core areas,
by very thoroughly diving into a complementary line extension area.
ie, after a decade of wrestling, try cross training and cross competing in Judo or Sambo or BJJ.
If you are a black belt in GJJ but never were in a boxing match, get a boxing trainer and do some amateur boxing matches in a boxing venue.
Or, find a Dog Brothers teachers, and when he says you are ready, go to a gathering and see how you do.
Or try fencing or Kendo etc. Not because you intend on carrying a sword, but as a complementary form of exercise and physical education about a related skill.
I think having people at all levels train firearm safety and basic marksmanship with a pistol and at least one long gun is a very reasonable thing to do.
It is not about which activity is best, it is about keeping your brain learning, and be able to be useful when you need if the model was chosen against your wishes.
Frankly for self defense training, learning how to fall, avoidance training, and basic firearm self-defense are probably more important than anything hand to hand.
But, I would add, that all of these areas are a lot of fun, and the time passes either way.
It is amazing what we can get done if we schedule the activities.