[QUOTE=battlefields;2750326]Anyone reminded of American History X?[/QUOTE]
No. What may I ask, does a movie about a reformed/rethinking racist have anything to do with this conversation?
Younger brother was shot in the shit can by fellow, albeit other side of the fence gangster?
[QUOTE=hungryjoe;2750327]No. What may I ask, does a movie about a reformed/rethinking racist have anything to do with this conversation?[/QUOTE]
Their dad was a fireman shot to death fighting a fire in the hood.
Lets get to the heart of the matter. I understand why the second amendment exists and I can see that other nations, like the swiss, seem to handle mass gun ownership just fine.
So what’s going wrong in America?
[QUOTE=Cullion;2750353]…
So what’s going wrong in America?[/QUOTE]
Smoking, obesity, alcohol…
Violent crime is at a 40 year low on the other hand.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750374]What now? foreign threats? you owning a gun is going to protect you from what kind of foreign threat exactly?[/QUOTE]
The kind that you need a gun for, obviously. We can’t always rely on a military industrial complex to save us, especially when past terrorist attacks have been behind the lines they protect. Warfare is different now. And I hope you (living in Israel), of all people, understand the necessity of personal security in the face of an enemy that will obviously find a way around security protocols as best they can to kill innocent people. Forgive me if I take the defense of my home and country very seriously.
This is exactly the reason people from other countries need to shut the fuck up about our domestic policy when relevant parties are discussing serious issues. You obviously are endorsing your countries gun control policies. Which I’m sure work very well in tiny little Israel, but NEWSFLASH, this isn’t Israel asshole. This is the U.S. and we have the 2nd amendment. And as long as we do, our citizens have the right to be armed for the purposes of militia. Militia’s can’t do shit with bolt action rifles against modern weaponry.
The greatest foreign threat at the moment is letting other countries tell us how to neuter our citizens from being able to stop our fascist overlords from having complete control of us.
firefighters shot dead
[QUOTE=erezb;2750374]What now? foreign threats? you owning a gun is going to protect you from what kind of foreign threat exactly?[/QUOTE]
Parts of the US; border areas; face significant threats to individuals from foreign criminals. Numerous parts of the US are isolated and cannot rely on law enforcement. If you ever fly over the us from coast to coast you will see these areas. Some areas are extremely safe and there is close to zero safety benefit from a firearm. Hope this helps.
[QUOTE=Batman Smells;2750436]Asymetrical warfare dude. One old guy with a scoped hunting rifle can keep a coy pinned down if well positioned and unconcerned for thier own safety[/QUOTE]
In a few highly exceptional cases yes. However some of our military experienced members could better educate me regarding modern weaponry and tactics involving that particular scenario.
As someone who can hit a paper plate at 900 yards away with my .270, I’m pretty confident in my abilities with my rifle. I would never engage someone with an assault rifle unless I could confidently kill ALL of them before they found me (probably the 600-900 yard area). Because unless I had a creative and prepared escape route, I would surely be dead before I could escape. And if there were more than 4 of them, and they reacted quickly enough, even at that range, with an unpredictable angle for the shot, I would be screwed once they took cover then found my general location.
EDIT:
Also, I’m not one of those people not concerned for my own safety obviously.
[QUOTE=Batman Smells;2750436]Asymetrical warfare dude. One old guy with a scoped hunting rifle can keep a coy pinned down if well positioned and unconcerned for thier own safety[/QUOTE]
Excellent! You’ve read The Tunnels of Chu Chi. You can be point man for the three man suicide squad!
I’m gonna drop in here completely clueless but…
This really isn’t about rights but about situation control. In rural areas I can understand people owning firearms, they do here in Europe as well, but having semi-automatic guns in population centers is just plain stupid. Big concentration of people with big concentration of bullets, shit is bad. In which situation this would ever be a good idea?
To enforce a separation is hard, especially with everyone going all constitutional rights on it. But why not have geographically enforced permits and some repression to go with it. I believe it sort of works with fully automatics? Also there just have to be less weapons in circulation, they did a good job in britain for example changing that.
Anyway enlighten me as to how I’m not getting this, this shit is alien to me…
[QUOTE=Batman Smells;2750527]http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=119377
It is a lot of reading but worth putting in the time[/QUOTE]
thanks! very informative, a lot of very good arguments, unfortunately laced with correlation-not-causation assumptions and right wing rhetorics but as an essay/opinion piece that’s acceptable.
Now, OP, correct me if I’m wrong, but just about everyone in Israel (or just about everyone, and their monkey) owns some sort of firearm (probably uzi?) Or is it just the military personnel? Also from what I understand, the military personnel get to go home every weekend? With their weapons in hand? So in essence, you have thick selection of the population ready to respond to an armed threat on almost any part of the map at the drop of a hat?
Just curious.
[QUOTE=Sri Hanuman;2750551]Now, OP, correct me if I’m wrong, but just about everyone in Israel (or just about everyone, and their monkey) owns some sort of firearm (probably uzi?) Or is it just the military personnel? Also from what I understand, the military personnel get to go home every weekend? With their weapons in hand? So in essence, you have thick selection of the population ready to respond to an armed threat on almost any part of the map at the drop of a hat?
Just curious.[/QUOTE]
Yes and no. As long as there is a reason for you to own a weapon, you will own one. If you live in a dangerous place (they decide 
) you can own ONE firearm to carry with you. If you serve…you have your weapon (no uzi) usually either an american flat top M4 OR m16 or our own Tavor. And yes there are a lot of security guard that get to own a gun because of their job. (securing malls, schools basically if there is a door and people inside there is an armed person guarding…and a mettle detector. sweet living ha? ) If you want to get to your mall/hospital you go through a mettle detector.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750555]Yes and no. As long as there is a reason for you to own a weapon, you will own one. If you live in a dangerous place (they decide ) you can own ONE firearm to carry with you. If you serve…you have your weapon (no uzi) usually either an american flat top M4 OR m16 or our own Tavor. And yes there are a lot of security guard that get to own a gun because of their job. (securing malls, schools basically if there is a door and people inside there is an armed person guarding…and a mettle detector. sweet living ha? ) If you want to get to your mall/hospital you go through a mettle detector.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I’m sorry. I had no idea that Israel is actually a peaceful utopia completely free of violence. Congratulations!
[QUOTE=Batman Smells;2750558]What about the settlers in the disputed areas? Are they subject to Israeli law or is it Wild West rules?[/QUOTE]
They are subject to both israeli laws and martial laws. Palestinians there are subject to martial laws alone. (Or their own muslim laws…). But as you can imagine, where there is no police it is wild wild west (you can drive fast, no seat-belts and as drunk as a donkey in a wedding. And…yea the they are all armed…and old school shootouts happen. Settlers lead dangerous lives on the one hand they can work in jerusalem in a high tech company… and than drive through the territories to a nice house. On the way some seriously fucked up shit can happen. Sometimes inside the settlement too.
[QUOTE=Mr. Machette;2750582]Oh, I’m sorry. I had no idea that Israel is actually a peaceful utopia completely free of violence. Congratulations![/QUOTE]
Sarcasm…man’s best friend.
Can you imagine how bad it would be if you could just own an assault rifle??? fuck…
On a personal level, i voice my opinion with sincere concern, i have family and friends in the US and in general am very grateful for all the things you guys are doing for us. I have no delusions that my well being isn’t tightly linked to your well being and will. If i intervene it is just because i want something better for your country you included. It actually hurts me to hear about kids getting killed by another kid that took his mother’s gun…And i do believe mine is a good way to reduce such acts. That is all, i don’t think my country is better…give me a fucking break, i know where i live.
I don’t know if you guys know this but firemen get shot it more often than you think. Its just that right after some major gun violence, every shooting that happens in this huge country makes it on the news.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750591]Sarcasm…man’s best friend.
Can you imagine how bad it would be if you could just own an assault rifle??? fuck…
On a personal level, i voice my opinion with sincere concern, i have family and friends in the US and in general am very grateful for all the things you guys are doing for us. I have no delusions that my well being isn’t tightly linked to your well being and will. If i intervene it is just because i want something better for your country you included. It actually hurts me to hear about kids getting killed by another kid that took his mother’s gun…And i do believe mine is a good way to reduce such acts. That is all, i don’t think my country is better…give me a fucking break, i know where i live.[/QUOTE]
I keep telling you this, but you get angry. Our countries are different and that’s why you get sarcasm. Shocking, I know.
You know how you described your “safety scenario,” where you implied “you get what you deserve” if people aren’t instituting those measures? In the US, that’s the tinfoil cult crew, racist doomsday survivalists, live in a terrible neighborhood or you are a major drug dealer protecting illegal shit.
In other words, all of what you described would be looked on with disdain and extreme paranoia in most cases.
I know but excessive guns blah blah blah, we exchange one idiocy for another.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750591]Sarcasm…man’s best friend.
Can you imagine how bad it would be if you could just own an assault rifle??? [/QUOTE]
Yeah. Not “bad” at all. I live in Oregon. Guess how manny NFA stamps there are in this state?
We had some yahoo try to shoot up the mall just prior to Sandy Hook. He got scared away by a legal CCW holder who drew down on him when the (stolen) rifle jammed.
Do you have any idea how many guns are in this country? Hundreds of millions. Americans just purchased more ARs and hi-cap mags in one week than all three years prior. Gun violence? The lowest it;s been in 40 years. Two thirds lower per capita, per anum than it was when the assault weapons ban expired.
If you really want something “better” for us then stop trying to impose regulations that obviously have not ended violence in your country as if they would end it here.
Basically, mind you own business and stop assuming you know something about how things work here. Because they are actually the opposite of what your news service is telling you.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750553]First, gun controle and serios recall is going to make it very hard on all of those who threaten your home to come after youwith a gun. A lot of attacks here aren’t done with guns just because of that. [/QUOTE]
No it wont. criminals don’t care about regulations, and a “mass recall” wouldn’t go over so well with the owners of those guns.
Also, it wouldn’t even stop ME from getting an assault weapon. I would just be funding a criminal arms dealer rather than stimulating the U.S. Economy.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750553]Second, do you have bars on all your windows? (i do ) do you have a heavy armored door with mettle inside that can stop an axe and a gun? i do. Now when you are safe inside, you can call the people who’s job it is to fight foreign threats like the police the national guard FBI etc. If you did not safe guard your house/apartment with the bare minimum you have no right to talk about safe keeping your home with a weapon. You have seen to many die hard movies you wanna be rambo.[/QUOTE]
Cool, you live in a police state. I don’t want to, nor do I believe I should. I have the right to defend my home myself. Thank you. I don’t trust police officers, the national guard, the FBI, etc. to act in my own best interest. And also, someone lights your house on fire and welds your super door shut, then you are fucked pretty royally. Nice plan.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750553]I can assure you that when shots are fired all this bravado is forgotten and you become a scared little lump of flesh that will trade all the guns in the world for a really strong door. [/QUOTE]
Ad hominem much? And you assume far too much about me.
[QUOTE=erezb;2750553]Also to answer Mike. I did not say you should take guns from everybody, i just said it shouldn’t be a right rather a privilege to own one (like a driver’s license). If you live in a dangerous place fine, own one, if you live in a secluded place, fine own one. If you are your average dude or dudet in america like most of you…than no. Something happens you call the cops, and if your sole argument is to protect your house, buy window bars and a strong door.[/QUOTE]
Fascism much? Like I said. I’m not comfortable living in a police state
[QUOTE=erezb;2750553] Now if you are talking about armed militia to protect yourself against some sort of an American tyrant…you are as stupid as a … something very stupid.[/QUOTE]
Again… ad hominem, much?
As someone patriotic and well-read in history. Remember when an overwhelming war machine tried to disarm and neuter the people of this country? It was called the Revolutionary War and it’s how this country was founded. Also, ever heard of Vietnam?
Again… STFU when grown folks is talkin.
[QUOTE=Mr. Machette;2750597]Yeah. Not “bad” at all. I live in Oregon. Guess how manny NFA stamps there are in this state?
We had some yahoo try to shoot up the mall just prior to Sandy Hook. He got scared away by a legal CCW holder who drew down on him when the (stolen) rifle jammed.
Do you have any idea how many guns are in this country? Hundreds of millions. Americans just purchased more ARs and hi-cap mags in one week than all three years prior. Gun violence? The lowest it;s been in 40 years. Two thirds lower per capita, per anum than it was when the assault weapons ban expired.
If you really want something “better” for us then stop trying to impose regulations that obviously have not ended violence in your country as if they would end it here.
Basically, mind you own business and stop assuming you know something about how things work here. Because they are actually the opposite of what your news service is telling you.[/QUOTE]
First, the “safety masseurs” like bars on windows etc. which are the norm here, do help minimize home invasions and they for sure help stop spontaneous attacks on homes by making it very hard to force your way into one, so don’t assume it does not stop violence. Second, most of the violence you are talking about is because of the conflict, the criminal violence isn’t that bad compared (in the jewish sector).
Third, about minding my own business, if i had any tinny little influence about what goes on in your country, i would, but because i am just voicing my opinion in a little little thread, i don’t think it is necessary. I mean, have you ever voiced an opinion about the middle east conflict? probably, and did you feed from the media? sure.
Do you think you understand what is going on in israel better than i do about your country?
I have visited your country and i have family and friends living there also american friends living here, beside the fact that my culture is american based…so you will be surprised about how much i actually know. (not much but you will still be surprised).
For example i know that the differences between people from different cultures in the US added to big differences between states make it imfuckingpossible to actually stereotypically define what is “American” and what “works” in your country.