Blue To Purple Belt Questions - Mods Pls Mod If Necessary

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1

I have recently left my long-term gym due to a number of issues that are not necessarily important here, but I’ve been a blue belt since 2013 and been a blue belt with 4 stripes since 2017. I have been pushing for purple for ages but kept getting looked over. This isn’t about the belt, I know I’m on the tail end of my blue belt journey, I just want to get some opinions from the more experienced caucus on the transition to the purple belt journey.

This is more about the technique progression more than a specific technique, but it is of a more advanced nature, despite being generalised. Happy to have it moved if needed.

I’m getting a couple of mixed messages about the aspects of training from the two different “schools’s” black belts. My previous coach seemed to want to hit me with “you’re too big and use big boy jits too much and it won’t work against someone as big as you”, while my new coaches are like, “find the finishes you are good at and then create as many paths back to it as possible by putting yourself in shitty situations” while also saying that they’d never tell a nimble or flexible person to not use their speed or agility, so why would they tell me not to use my size and strength.

Logically both make sense.

I basically never fight for top position at the start of a roll anymore, preferring to engage guards, or straight allow people to go to mount or side control. The only reason I remember the last time I did fight for top control was because a dude was going for his blue belt and I needed to show him who the top dog was in the ranks (lol, kidding but half serious). I’ve figured if I start in a shitty position and get back on top, I’m learning how to be the little guy, if that makes sense.

And my figure 4s are fearsome, if I get one on your arm, either Kimura or Americana, it is my arm now. I have other finishes that I wouldn’t call fearsome, but they are dangerous and I’d like to make them fearsome.

I’ve kinda been playing the new gym’s coaches strategy for the past several years anyway. I recently asked one of them what I needed to do to bridge my knowledge and he gave me a wink and a nod that I was already doing what the gym want me to be doing as a purple belt.

I’m wondering what you experienced coaches tell your upcoming blue-to-purple candidates as to what to focus on.

Do you get them to focus on their strengths and develop them?

Or do you get them to focus on their weaknesses first?

Or is it just a case that they have to show that they know the full gamut of techniques before progressing and strength and weakness be damned?

Or is it completely subjective and I’m overthinking shit and I have my answer already so STFU and train?

2

[QUOTE=battlefields;3036968]I have recently left my long-term gym due to a number of issues that are not necessarily important here, but I’ve been a blue belt since 2013 and been a blue belt with 4 stripes since 2017. I have been pushing for purple for ages but kept getting looked over. This isn’t about the belt, I know I’m on the tail end of my blue belt journey, I just want to get some opinions from the more experienced caucus on the transition to the purple belt journey.

This is more about the technique progression more than a specific technique, but it is of a more advanced nature, despite being generalised. Happy to have it moved if needed.

I’m getting a couple of mixed messages about the aspects of training from the two different “schools’s” black belts. My previous coach seemed to want to hit me with “you’re too big and use big boy jits too much and it won’t work against someone as big as you”, while my new coaches are like, “find the finishes you are good at and then create as many paths back to it as possible by putting yourself in shitty situations” while also saying that they’d never tell a nimble or flexible person to not use their speed or agility, so why would they tell me not to use my size and strength.

Logically both make sense.

I basically never fight for top position at the start of a roll anymore, preferring to engage guards, or straight allow people to go to mount or side control. The only reason I remember the last time I did fight for top control was because a dude was going for his blue belt and I needed to show him who the top dog was in the ranks (lol, kidding but half serious). I’ve figured if I start in a shitty position and get back on top, I’m learning how to be the little guy, if that makes sense.

And my figure 4s are fearsome, if I get one on your arm, either Kimura or Americana, it is my arm now. I have other finishes that I wouldn’t call fearsome, but they are dangerous and I’d like to make them fearsome.

I’ve kinda been playing the new gym’s coaches strategy for the past several years anyway. I recently asked one of them what I needed to do to bridge my knowledge and he gave me a wink and a nod that I was already doing what the gym want me to be doing as a purple belt.

I’m wondering what you experienced coaches tell your upcoming blue-to-purple candidates as to what to focus on.

Do you get them to focus on their strengths and develop them?

Or do you get them to focus on their weaknesses first?

Or is it just a case that they have to show that they know the full gamut of techniques before progressing and strength and weakness be damned?

Or is it completely subjective and I’m overthinking shit and I have my answer already so STFU and train?[/QUOTE]
I would not worry about the belt rank, and have fun making “higher belts” tap.

While you work on learning and refining the techniques that are of interest to you to learn.

Hopefully in conjunction and under the guidance of coaches who are competent and care about your progress.

But if not, just have fun making them tap, too.

On a side note, a lot of Jiu-Jitsu schools subtly train heavy weights to lose.

Quick guys use their quickness, flexible players use their flexibility, and heavy players should learn to use their physical attributes to their advantage.

Technique is a technology that should have multiplier effect on your useful attributes.

There is always someone bigger or stronger, so always hone your technique.

But, if your gift is that you are the biggest and the strongest, if I were your coach, I would be teaching you and encouraging you from the perspective of, ‘Hulk Smash’.

And, I would be teaching you to make the black belts in the room tap if you could.

If fact, I would be doing everything I could to deprogram you and all the other students to psychologically disregard your opponents “belt rank” when you were preparing to eat them or engaging in making them your food during a roll or a fight.

3

[QUOTE=battlefields;3037010]I didn’t make that connection until now, which is odd cause I am speaking to him regularly at the moment (we’re working together on a couple of projects, if you weren’t already aware although I think you might be).

Detritus667, yeah, agreed, the belt progression has that politics element you mentioned. Which, now that I think about it, ties in with Cualltaigh’s coach’s situation too.

And yeah, Gonzo, I am enjoying getting the tap on higher belts, including the rare black, but I’m also really enjoying the puzzle of identifying where and why I am getting in certain situations with other blues and purples where I’m having to defend the same shit over and over that are clearly their “go to” moves.

For example, long limbed beings seem to get me in armbar/ triangle combos a fair amount, with the battle being me trying to get out by trying to get them to release the arm without getting the sub slapped in solid as I try to withdraw. I’m trying to work back and figure out how I’m getting my arm grabbed in the first place at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they are creating a hole by moving their body that takes away the previous structure your arm was relying on.

4

I’d say you’re right considering where I end up. Thanks, that is actually really helpful, I’ll test it out and come back with my findings.

5

[QUOTE=Dr. Gonzo;3036975]I would not worry about the belt rank, and have fun making “higher belts” tap.

While you work on learning and refining the techniques that are of interest to you to learn.

Hopefully in conjunction and under the guidance of coaches who are competent and care about your progress.

But if not, just have fun making them tap, too.

On a side note, a lot of Jiu-Jitsu schools subtly train heavy weights to lose.

Quick guys use their quickness, flexible players use their flexibility, and heavy players should learn to use their physical attributes to their advantage.

Technique is a technology that should have multiplier effect on your useful attributes.

There is always someone bigger or stronger, so always hone your technique.

But, if your gift is that you are the biggest and the strongest, if I were your coach, I would be teaching you and encouraging you from the perspective of, ‘Hulk Smash’.

And, I would be teaching you to make the black belts in the room tap if you could.

If fact, I would be doing everything I could to deprogram you and all the other students to psychologically disregard your opponents “belt rank” when you were preparing to eat them or engaging in making them your food during a roll or a fight.[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah…

6

[QUOTE=Dr. Gonzo;3036975]I would not worry about the belt rank, and have fun making “higher belts” tap.

While you work on learning and refining the techniques that are of interest to you to learn.

Hopefully in conjunction and under the guidance of coaches who are competent and care about your progress.

But if not, just have fun making them tap, too.

On a side note, a lot of Jiu-Jitsu schools subtly train heavy weights to lose.

Quick guys use their quickness, flexible players use their flexibility, and heavy players should learn to use their physical attributes to their advantage.

Technique is a technology that should have multiplier effect on your useful attributes.

There is always someone bigger or stronger, so always hone your technique.

But, if your gift is that you are the biggest and the strongest, if I were your coach, I would be teaching you and encouraging you from the perspective of, ‘Hulk Smash’.

And, I would be teaching you to make the black belts in the room tap if you could.

If fact, I would be doing everything I could to deprogram you and all the other students to psychologically disregard your opponents “belt rank” when you were preparing to eat them or engaging in making them your food during a roll or a fight.[/QUOTE]

My coaches are all Ultra-HWs or HW’s. I am a HW. We never say silly shit like this.

We just smash.

7

It would be really interesting to me to cross examine a good school with no belt ranks to one that does. I wonder if there would be any significant differences in the schools ncome, turnover, student success, and student enjoyment.

8

Regarding the OP, if you’re starting off under side mount or mount on a regular basis as a big, you’re ahead of the traditional big guy game already.

Sounds like you’re doing exactly what you need to do. As much as possible, forget about rank and work on getting better.

Pay attention to the weaknesses in your games and work diligently to improve in those areas.

I’ll be the dispenser of training platitudes today.

9

[QUOTE=Ulsteryank;3037057]Just out of curiousity, is this still being said for competitors, that do well? One would imagine if you compete and bring back bling, that it shows your jitz works against someone of equal stature, skill, or greater.[/QUOTE]

No idea to be honest, this was never said to me directly and my gym switched affiliations to ATOS around 5 years ago so we have no interaction with the coach in question anymore.

10

[QUOTE=Dr. Gonzo;3037011]Maybe they are creating a hole by moving their body that takes away the previous structure your arm was relying on.[/QUOTE]

Follow up to this, I’ve been basically meditating on a number of related things, particularly alongside the idea of identifying two to three steps prior.

I rolled with the guy on the weekend that has executed the triangle/armbar combo on me a couple of times and realised that he literally has a grip on my arm but doesn’t pull it to him until I am going to pass the guard. I think. I didn’t get caught in it this time, and it is his speciality, but by noticing that he was always fishing for the arm, it became apparent that that was the key to it all.

So the answer is essentially not to commit if someone has control, limited or otherwise, of the post that I would need to effectively make a successful pass. This requires me to re-think which pass I am going to do, OR re-think the details of the execution, which is likely the ACTUAL problem. In that, it is highly likely that I am Hulk Smashing my way into the trap because it has been so successful for me in the past.

I know I do shit like fish my arm under the leg while in guard because in many cases I’m stronger than the person, which I catch myself doing, but that has given me the bad habit.

Focus is to unlearn bad habit.

11

hmmmmm. Everybody is different?

12

[QUOTE=Omega Supreme;3037144]hmmmmm. Everybody is different?[/QUOTE]
Yes, even seemingly genetic twins are different.

13

[QUOTE=Dr. Gonzo;3037145]Yes, even seemingly genetic twins are different.[/QUOTE]
As a matter of fact, the me of tomorrow will be different than the me of today, and both are different than the me of yesterday.

14

[QUOTE=Dr. Gonzo;3037145]Yes, even seemingly genetic twins are different.[/QUOTE]Well this thread is so nuanced what would you like to say. I have guys who don’t want to memorize the curriculum so I’m like “Okay, let’s go to this tournament. If you have decent competition and you clean up the division then we’ll talk.” Then there the guys “Do I have to compete. No, show me you know the curriculum and show me you have the skills on the mat and we’ll talk…”. Then they don’t understand when I say “You’re muscling all your techniques.” Then they say “But I have the curriculum memorized”.

Insert a dozen metaphors here?

15

I think I should have been clearer that I wasn’t looking for information on “how to get purple”, more I was giving context as to where I am (end of blue and a long way into it too which has some politics issues attached to it).

I have spoken to my coaches and know exactly what is happening with my “official” rank, I am not concerned about the belt colour due to the politics, etc.

I was more trying to establish a “unofficial” understanding of what level I am grappling-wise for the real questions, ie, the two schools of thought.

Apologies for the confusion.

16

I think both your coaches are right. Like the strength thing i think relates well in competition where you will be paired with somone of your size. You could be stronger, or he could but either way trying to out muscle will burn your energy out. Obviously if you combine strength and technique you will be near unstoppable but that wasnt the point coach 1 was making i think. Second coach i think is also right because from what i hear, when you hit purple belt thats when you really start developing an actual ‘game’ or personal style. Perhaps the answers were infront of you the entire time.

17

The other side of the coin about using strength all the time? You can slam your way out of two or three submissions, then you’re exhausted and get strangled by somebody much smaller. See Rampage Jackson for examples.

1.: learn the techniques properly regardless of size,strength and speed. For instance:A lot of self defense techniques are silly for me due to my size and athletic ability. Who the fuck is gonna pin me against a wall and strangle me? Shaq ? The Mountain? However learning to deal with those sorts of things without muscle allows me to better understand body mechanics and to teach those that can’t snatch 90% of the population by their hair with their left and Dim Mak them on the chin with their
Right.

  1. Depending how big you are you may actually need two games. I am big. I am not huge. In the absolute division I may be out weighed by 50 to 100 lbs. My guard is pretty sick because I have worked on it a lot. That’s been a conscious decision of mine. Not many people can force me to play bottom so in training I make sure I play both daily.
18

Yeah, cool, I hear you. If anything, I probably have played underneath too much, my top game is restricted because rounds are 4-6 minutes.

I start from under side control/ mount/ guard, although I fully admit my full guard needs work - I am comfortable that I will eventually get on top due to my half and Z guards for the most part. It’s browns and blacks that are able to keep me down, but they’re having to work to do so. Purples, blues and whites, I kinda let them get on top so they can work on their attacks, and I can test out escapes, sweeps, etc.

Also, it gives them the opportunity to set the pace and tone for the roll. If they want to grind their elbows into me or get into knee ride, I’m happy to oblige, it means I can give myself permission to knee ride them when I get on top, a position nobody wants to be in with me.

Realisation from Rayce’s comment: work on closed/open guard.

Cheers.

19

How is 4-6 mins restrictive to your top game? If you start from knees you can play soon as you Get grips. If you start standing well it’ll depend how quickly the other person goes to the ground but by default you start at ‘top’. 4-6 mins is a very long time to be standing trying to throw takedown the other person, props to the judo guys that do this on the daily.

20

Read the very next paragraph, kravbizarre. I might be good at escaping and sweeping, but I still have to set it up and execute. That can be anywhere from 30 seconds in for a white belt, to 5:50 for a black belt.