Define the belt levels in BJJ, what criteria are required, what factors should be considered? (Discuss whether or not it’s subjective based on the person being considered)
I want Bullshido’s consensus, feel free to use other people’s explanations (Helio, Saulo, Roy Harris, Matt Thornton, etc).
(I know this isn’t a technique so I asked ahead, but keep it within the feel of the Basic Tech forum)
Alright should the techniques required to defeat a skilled grappler include both gi and nogi techniques? Would the purple, brown, black belt be required to know how to use/counter 50/50, De La Riva, X-guard, Rubber Guard, Sao Paulo methods of passing, heel hooks, toe holds, complex lapel chokes, etc? All techniques skilled grapplers use.
First let me say that if you want to be a well rounded grappler, you must train both gi and no gi. Emphasis should be on the gi during the first few years of training. I say this because so many pure no-gi grapplers I encounter are lacking in their fundamentals.
In my opinion, a blue belt in BJJ should have a solid grasp of the following; a minimum of three sweeps from guard, two half guard sweeps, three reversals from under side control, three escapes from side control, two escapes and two reversals from under turtle, two mount escapes, two subs while in any major dominant position in grappling plus two subs from guard, knowledge of three collar chokes and two non-collar chokes.
They should have an area of strength like top game or guard. They should also be aware of their major weakness and be committed to improving it.
For purple belts, just increase all the numberof moves known by two. Additionally, purples should have no major holes in their game, but be well rounded with specific aspects of their game that are fairly advanced. Mostly though, they should be competent enough on the mat to deal with anyone unskilled who is not a NFL lineman sized/strong person in a grappling only situation.
Brown belts should be even more refined. A solid brown will be capable of pulling off deliberate misdirection to deceive their opponent into moving exactly where the brown wants them to be. Their positional awareness should make them mostly immune to being tricked or dominated by the lower belts. I’ve always liked the explanation that browns, even more than purples, have all the tools that the black belt has. They just lack the seasoning.
I’m a blue belt under Matt Thornton, so it’s not surprising that I favor his definition of the ranks.
The first & simplest point is that to be of a given rank you need to be able to roll competitively with others of that rank, or have been able at the time your rank was attained (people do slow down with age after all).
The second part of the definition of ranks has to do with the individual’s level of understanding. A blue belt should know all the basic positions & postures & the major routes between positions. A purple belt should actually be good at those things, but also should be looking at the art less in terms of individual techniques & more in terms of broader strategic principles. A brown belt should be someone who has discovered the strategic style that works best for them. A black belt is someone who has refined & pressure tested their personal style & also understands where their style fits within the framework of what is universal in Jiu-jitsu.
[QUOTE=jnp;2511380]First let me say that if you want to be a well rounded grappler, you must train both gi and no gi. Emphasis should be on the gi during the first few years of training. I say this because so many pure no-gi grapplers I encounter are lacking in their fundamentals.
In my opinion, a blue belt in BJJ should have a solid grasp of the following; a minimum of three sweeps from guard, two half guard sweeps, three reversals from under side control, three escapes from side control, two escapes and two reversals from under turtle, two mount escapes, two subs while in any major dominant position in grappling plus two subs from guard, knowledge of three collar chokes and two non-collar chokes.
They should have an area of strength like top game or guard. They should also be aware of their major weakness and be committed to improving it.
[/QUOTE]
How do you define “a solid grasp” of these techniques? Demonstration? Explanation? Performance under pressure?
Would you explain why the 2’s and 3’s per category? I mean why 3 sweeps from guard and only 2 from half guard?
Personally it’s an intangible thing by nature.
However I would say solid grasp implies you’re able to pull off those techniques against people of those same belt level with comparative athleticism and size.
I would say that that you should be held to an individual and community wide standard. What I mean is that individually you may have the attributes combined with the skill to beat a blue/purple/brown/black, however that doesn’t make you one.
Blue’s should be able to explain (What is the goal, where are my limbs, where is my weight, etc) and be able to apply the basic positions (closed/half guard, side, back, mount, kneeride) against other blue belts of comparable attributes.
Ability to explain the basic submissions (armbar, triangle, kimura, americana, omoplata, guillotine, cross choke, rnc, arm triangle, footlock), basic sweeps (hipbump, scissor, hookflip)/guard passes breaks (double under, knee slice, single under, torrendo), escapes from mount/side/back.
Demonstrate and apply 2 basic takedowns of their choice, as well as the sprawl.
Demonstrate headlock escapes, standing guillotine defense, posture control from guard, standing in base, getting to the clinch while blocking punches.
You should be able to do gi and nogi. It sounds like a lot, but welcome to the world of grappling you gotta know shit.
I do agree with JNP assessment that they should have an area of strength. I would apply that later down the line to include a preferred guard, and a working knowledge of all guards but not the ability to use them. Only the ability to pass and defend.
[QUOTE=David Koresh Jr.;2515414]
However I would say solid grasp implies you’re able to pull off those techniques against people of those same belt level with comparative athleticism and size.
I would say that that you should be held to an individual and community wide standard. What I mean is that individually you may have the attributes combined with the skill to beat a blue/purple/brown/black, however that doesn’t make you one.
[/QUOTE]
Not sure what this means exactly. The community standard part I mean. If I can consistently make techniques work against you and we’re relatively the same size and age, what is missing from my qualification to graduate to purple?
Also nobody mentions the ability to teach technique or strategy - would you consider that part of the equation?
[QUOTE=tao.jonez;2515431]Not sure what this means exactly. The community standard part I mean. If I can consistently make techniques work against you and we’re relatively the same size and age, what is missing from my qualification to graduate to purple?
Also nobody mentions the ability to teach technique or strategy - would you consider that part of the equation?[/QUOTE]
I would consider it part of the equation for purples.
You have to be technically comparable across the board in all positions against multiple purples of similar attributes from other schools. No true blue belt should be able to win in all positions against a purple of comparable attributes.
I pull guard on certain brown belts and can sweep them and tap them with guillotines or ankle locks, this does not make me a brown belt. I can’t consistently hold side/mount/back on them. The difference is at all aspects can I consistently hold my own from a technical standpoint? No.
You could consistently beat me for reasons other than attribute and skill, certain stylistic/technical aspects are in your favor perhaps.
Would you like a comparison to our SAMBO belt requirements?
[QUOTE=Omega;2515994]Would you like a comparison to our SAMBO belt requirements?[/QUOTE]
Yes that would be insightful (especially since you don’t train shitty people).
I’ve always thought of the ranks as a relative measure. The way I view it is (considering ONLY TRAINING IN BJJ): A belt should be able to survive (not get submitted/injured) against 90-95% of the ranks below him. The percentage is not concrete, just an impression.
There can be exceptions for dramatic weight difference, but a belt should imply that you are able to get out of an encounter safely versus a great majority of those lower ranked than you.
[QUOTE=rangerdavy;2516003]I’ve always thought of the ranks as a relative measure. The way I view it is (considering ONLY TRAINING IN BJJ): A belt should be able to survive (not get submitted/injured) against 90-95% of the ranks below him. The percentage is not concrete, just an impression.
There can be exceptions for dramatic weight difference, but a belt should imply that you are able to get out of an encounter safely versus a great majority of those lower ranked than you.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind, as you mentally formulate those percentages, that every rank is a continuum. Even in a perfect system the gap between a very senior blue belt and a very new purple belt is infinitesmal: Brand new purple belts won’t be substantially ahead of seasoned blue belts, though a ‘mid-tier’ purple belt should definitely be a rank notch ahead of a mid-tier blue. “90–95%” does not leave much room for the fuzziness here.
How to Easily Identify BJJ Belt Ranks
The Black Belt
Faster than a speeding bullet.
More powerful than a locomotive.
Leaps tall buildings in a single bound.
Walks on water.
Lunches with God, but must pick up tab.
The Brown Belt
Almost as fast as a speeding bullet.
More powerful than a shunting engine on a steep incline.
Leaps short buildings with a single bound.
Walks on water if sea is calm.
Talks to God.
The Purple Belt
Faster than an energetically thrown rock.
Almost as powerful as a speeding bullet.
Leaps short buildings with a running start in favourable winds.
Walks on water of indoor swimming pools if lifeguard is present.
May be granted audience with God if special request is approved at least three working days in advance.
The Blue Belt
Is run over by trains.
Barely clears outhouse.
Dog paddles.
Mumbles to self.
The White Belt
Must have train ticket pinned to jacket and mittens tied to sleeves.
Falls over doorsteps while trying to enter tall buildings.
Plays in Mud puddles.
Studders.
The Guy in the TapouT shirt in Gi class
Says: “Look at choo choo!”
Not allowed inside buildings of any size.
Makes good boat anchor.
Mere existence makes God shudder.
Special Category: The Blue Belt posting online
Catches hyper sonic armour peircing fin stabilized discarding sabot depleted uranium long rod penetrators in his teeth and eats them.
Kicks bullet trains off their tracks.
Uproots tall buildings and walk under them.
Freezes water with a single glance; parts it with trifling gesture. Is God.
I hate your font but I love your post. I am conflicted.
[QUOTE=Petter;2516005]Keep in mind, as you mentally formulate those percentages, that every rank is a continuum. Even in a perfect system the gap between a very senior blue belt and a very new purple belt is infinitesmal: Brand new purple belts won’t be substantially ahead of seasoned blue belts, though a ‘mid-tier’ purple belt should definitely be a rank notch ahead of a mid-tier blue. “90–95%” does not leave much room for the fuzziness here.[/QUOTE]
I used 90-95% when I should have said: a large majority. However, this conversation is worthless because Vince defined it perfectly.
[QUOTE=Vince Tortelli;2516383]
How to Easily Identify BJJ Belt Ranks
The Black Belt
Faster than a speeding bullet.
More powerful than a locomotive.
Leaps tall buildings in a single bound.
Walks on water.
Lunches with God, but must pick up tab.
The Brown Belt
Almost as fast as a speeding bullet.
More powerful than a shunting engine on a steep incline.
Leaps short buildings with a single bound.
Walks on water if sea is calm.
Talks to God.
The Purple Belt
Faster than an energetically thrown rock.
Almost as powerful as a speeding bullet.
Leaps short buildings with a running start in favourable winds.
Walks on water of indoor swimming pools if lifeguard is present.
May be granted audience with God if special request is approved at least three working days in advance.
The Blue Belt
Is run over by trains.
Barely clears outhouse.
Dog paddles.
Mumbles to self.
The White Belt
Must have train ticket pinned to jacket and mittens tied to sleeves.
Falls over doorsteps while trying to enter tall buildings.
Plays in Mud puddles.
Studders.
The Guy in the TapouT shirt in Gi class
Says: “Look at choo choo!”
Not allowed inside buildings of any size.
Makes good boat anchor.
Mere existence makes God shudder.
Special Category: The Blue Belt posting online
Catches hyper sonic armour peircing fin stabilized discarding sabot depleted uranium long rod penetrators in his teeth and eats them.
Kicks bullet trains off their tracks.
Uproots tall buildings and walk under them.
Freezes water with a single glance; parts it with trifling gesture. Is God. [/QUOTE]
Gentlemen, while I will tolerate Mr. Tortelli’s post this time, this is the last comedy post I will allow in this thread.
This is a training forum and my lack of humor or patience in this area has been made clear repeatedly in the past.
So let me share with you our belt levels and what we are looking for in SAMBO:
Our first belt level is Yellow:Sport
Skills-I look for my guys to have the ability to flow from one position to another. Any over use of muscle is frowned upon. There are basic mistakes that all beginners do and they are expected not to perform that during grappling. Tapping people on a regular basis does not qualify you as a yellow; we watch the way you do it.
Knowledge- Each person is to know our basic philosophy and how it breaks down. They are required to learn a total of 9 throws, 4 take downs, 7 submissions (with over 3-8 variations per submission). They also need to 5 basic forms (you heard me) which include sweeps and transitions.
Physical: Each person will be required to grapple a minimum of 10 straight minutes with a fresh opponent coming in every 2 minutes. The last round will always be a black belt.
Green belt: Sport
Skills: Greenbelts are expected to know how to react to all types of opponents including much larger opponents. They are expected to know how to throw submission combos,
Knowledge: Submissions, submissions, submissions. Well over 2 dozen submissions are taught at this level. You are also introduced to basic striking and are expected to know how to throw with basic strike set ups.
Physical: Not much different then Yellow belt except you’re going for at least 15 minutes.
I’ll put up the last two tomorrow.
[QUOTE=Omega;2516883]So let me share with you our belt levels and what we are looking for in SAMBO:
I’ll put up the last two tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
Would you also explain the “:Sport” designation on the Yellow and Green belts?
[QUOTE=Omega;2516883]Knowledge- Each person is to know our basic philosophy and how it breaks down. They are required to learn a total of 9 throws, 4 take downs, 7 submissions (with over 3-8 variations per submission). They also need to 5 basic forms (you heard me) which include sweeps and transitions.[/QUOTE]
Do you have some techniques that you require them to test on, or do you let them pick what they demonstrate?
[QUOTE=rangerdavy;2518319]Do you have some techniques that you require them to test on, or do you let them pick what they demonstrate?[/QUOTE]I choose the techniques
[QUOTE=tao.jonez;2518298]Would you also explain the “:Sport” designation on the Yellow and Green belts?[/QUOTE]It’s the concentration of the technique. No self defense required. No real striking required.