I dithered whether to put this in AdGrap or the LEO section. Move if appropriate…
So, what do you guys think of this instruction ?
I found the “demo” to be pretty weak.
I would train with the assumption that a guy who knows enough to take your back and choke you is going to have some sort of training. Plus, the “full speed” demo, is not, IMO, full speed.
The mount escape is almost the exact one that I use all the time… sort of.
The back escape is… ok. I would not want to rely on it as it does not address the additional control someone can have over you when on your back. But, if you are an ok wrestler and they are just trying to reach around your neck, ok, I can see it.
Overall, it looks like some ok stuff. Miles ahead of some of the instruction I have seen for LEO’s out there. Not as good as getting real training in grappling.
The mount escape: basic trap and roll, it works. However I think they should focus on getting SLX from failed trap and roll attempts instead of going into triangle territory or getting stuck in closed guard and trying to open it with the silly dim mak demonstrated in the clip.
The mount escape options are fundamentally sound for sure.
The back escape, as mentioned, will work in that specific instance, but if the attacker has a little basic grappling experience it’s probably not the most ideal. I do like that the control he establishes keeps the hand that could steal his weapon tied-up though.
Not bad, way better than the stuff I was trained way back in the day. Seems like catching that leg, and just exiting underneath would be way easier than reversing the roll and the risk of triangle/entanglement. But not horrible.
I kind of wonder why they teach to totally exit/disengage and draw the weapon, when in many cases a back take would be quite easy. This is the perfect place to simply apply cuffs and not risk a further escalation/fight/shooting. This was always what I’d try to do. Get them belly down, weight applied, catch wrists, cuff them up. Done.
[QUOTE=RynoGreene;3025301]Not bad, way better than the stuff I was trained way back in the day. Seems like catching that leg, and just exiting underneath would be way easier than reversing the roll and the risk of triangle/entanglement. But not horrible.
I kind of wonder why they teach to totally exit/disengage and draw the weapon, when in many cases a back take would be quite easy. This is the perfect place to simply apply cuffs and not risk a further escalation/fight/shooting. This was always what I’d try to do. Get them belly down, weight applied, catch wrists, cuff them up. Done.[/QUOTE]
I suspect because that would require further training and practice, even further out of the norm of procedure.
You have a TASER, a baton/ASP, a handgun, and a radio to call for backup.
If a cop were already a skilled grappler, and practiced, yeah, that might be reasonable.
The mount escape is a pretty fundamental trap and roll. I like the bump to knock the hands to the mat first because it removes the weight from the legs and also allows the possibility of two other escapes, the elbow knee escape, and the hip push escape to slx (which is more sport specific, one would imagine, though if you think about it I don’t see a reason that -wouldn’t- work in a real-world application, but I’d prefer to be on top in a street fight).
I feel like this suffers the same problem as a lot of “self defense” issues.
Nothing wrong with a sit out right, its used all the time.
A sit out without a body of knowledge around it or all the details or how to deal with the post sit out scramble isn’t super useful(though I suppose having something is better than nothing).
The biggest problem I have with this, is it is that its really not taking away the base of the other guy. Its really hard to sweep people when they can still base out in the direction you are trying to roll them.
So the real question is what is the better alternative?
Well, if you are there you have seriously fucked up many ways. Sitting out requires the same base as turtling does, so provided you can sit out you should likewise be able to turtle. Remember that to beat a rear mount you either need to beat them at the lower body or at the upper body. When you are belly down, beating them at the lower body becomes very difficult, so you need to first build your base so you aren’t flattened out, then second you have to hand fight to prevent a cross body control, and following that you need to recover guard through rolling, or some other method. The sit-out in this particular case is not how I would choose to do it, however.
Yeah. You kind of should still go through a back take or positional control or there is a point there where they can do a quick crawl and snag an ankle or something.
Imagine they take that space to pull their own gun out.
That stand up and run away has its own element of risk.
that. And it is a key factor with security training courses.
At the end of the day people have to walk out of whatever period of training actually being able to do those moves
And from security courses I have done the mentality is very much when it becomes a choice between saying that he put the hooks in and starts throwing and now you need a bunch of systems and a lot longer time training.
Or he never puts them in and everyone is finished by lunch time.