Yeah, we could whip up some pugil sticks. Or buy some of that Chanbara crap.
If we use the right safety gear, we’ll be fine. The MD TD Crew has been looking to the Dog Bros. for our inspiration for this.
Like the previous comments on grappling and sparring et al., the same could be said for weapons. If you don’t have adequate training in the use of the staff, we don’t need you swinging a six foot piece of wood around. That’s how people get hurt.
Wood is safe enough, as long as the participants are adequately trained.
This will take some experimentation, unless we know of a supplier that has something that will work.
Right now I’m thinking of using either wood, iron or copper pipe and pipe foam insulation. I prefer the diameter of a staff to be 1 1/4 inch, a stick slightly smaller.
My initial thought is that the copper isn’t going to be strong enough.
I said headgear and gloves. Chest gear can be found for those that want them.
This really isn’t that dangerous. It’s wood. Not live blades. Do you need to know what you’re doing? Yes. Should you wear proper safety equipment? Yes.
Foam boppers and the like would seriously detract from what we’re trying to do here. :pancakebu There are people here who are fairly well versed in the weapons they use and approach it seriously. AnnaT has already posted vids of her weapons training. They just use headgear. We use headgear and gloves. The Dog Bros use headgear, gloves, and joint pads.
For knife work, not much is needed for padding anyway. It’s a contact weapon. It doesn’t require a great deal of swung force to “score”.
Hell, the community college I went to does Kali in the PE department, and all they wore were hockey gloves.
We will continue to test the format at the MD Throwdowns in the months to come and see what develops.
I spoke to Bull after one of our mini-throwdowns about his “sanctioning body” concerns. The biggest area that we can get in trouble is the language we use to discuss our activities. Depending on local regulation, words like “MMA”, “fight”, “match”, etc can have very specific legal meaning that could land us in wierd places with local regulating bodies. Towards this end, I recommend agreeing to a standard vocabulary that we use to discuss this event in public, both on the site and to the press.
Additionally, as the “body” providing the place and rules, I think we need to make it clear that these “sparring sessions” are friendly, safe, and between consenting parties. This should be our mantra to all outsiders who come to watch (specifically outsiders who have no MA experience)… despite what it may look like (and the odd minor injury here and there) what we do is safe.
Lastly, for this morning, I would pose that we have 3 different sparring formats, each with a specific ruleset. For instance, stand-up sparring could use Japanese Knockdown rules, rolling could use NAGA-esque rules, and MMA could use UFC-esque rules. With regards to n00b MMA sparring, I think it was Osiris who had the idea a time ago to have all MMA at the end of the event (so people are a bit more tempered and tired). We could go a step further and require anyone who wants to do MMA sparring to have done both rolling and stand-up sparring previously so that the attending refs/facilitators can have some idea of their skill.
Now, I’m wondering, and really, I should know but I don’t, do we have a point to these? If we do, can it be articulated? If so, I think a brief demonstration and articulation, followed by a discussion, of whatever the hell our point is would go a ways towards breaking down any stigma that the event may pick up as well as moving it beyond just brawling. Right now thats my main concern as I’m not all too pleased with how the last two throwdowns went. Fun, yes, but violence for its own sake isn’t exactly what we’re about.
In fact, what we COULD do, is split the event in half. The first portion being us on our soap box, some instruction in something reasonable, some drilling, technical exchange, etc, with free sparring starting up at a set time as stated on the flier or something. That way, its structured in a way so as to provide a seminar type experience.
Language should focus around the idea of a gathering in a non-competitive environment.
What I mean by that is there is no contest. There are no winners and no losers because there is no prize. It is a chance for martial artists of various ways to get together and mix it up.
I think the main point is for the testing of techniques or a “way” against different arts, styles or “ways.” There is a sub-point too, which I think is exchange of martial information.
By Invite Only Interactive MA Seminar … leave out the “hot” words … leave it vague enough so that it can’t be twisted.
Additionally, as the “body” providing the place and rules, I think we need to make it clear that these “sparring sessions” are friendly, safe, and between consenting parties. This should be our mantra to all outsiders who come to watch (specifically outsiders who have no MA experience)… despite what it may look like (and the odd minor injury here and there) what we do is safe.
Another Gremlin. At our abandoned building TD the guy who owned the place and was watching pulled me aside and asked if we could tone down the violence a bit. We were all in the 1/2 to 2/3 full out speed ranges and I didn’t think it looked very violent at all. Neither did anyone else when I raised the issue. This guy was an Airborne Ranger … total whack jobs … suicide jockeys … and to him it looked over the top.
We can’t control perception … we need to do a solid job on the pre-event release and set the tone by way of language.
Lastly, for this morning, I would pose that we have 3 different sparring formats, each with a specific ruleset. For instance, stand-up sparring could use Japanese Knockdown rules, rolling could use NAGA-esque rules, and MMA could use UFC-esque rules. With regards to n00b MMA sparring, I think it was Osiris who had the idea a time ago to have all MMA at the end of the event (so people are a bit more tempered and tired). We could go a step further and require anyone who wants to do MMA sparring to have done both rolling and stand-up sparring previously so that the attending refs/facilitators can have some idea of their skill.
Excellent suggestion … I support your proposed format.
Hey Osiris, why the fuck should I conduct a Poll to determine how many people YOU are showing up with? Get your lazy ass on it and post up your best rough guess numbers.
It would be very cool if there were regular mini-Throwdowns/meetups in major areas in which we’re represented like Atlanta. The Kansas City area group all pretty much goes to the same school so we have them several times a week.
I really like the idea of letting individuals set the level of contact between themselves. Having rules suggests a structure beyond just informal sparring.
Informal/“gentleman’s” rules where I train. Or in other words “don’t be an asshole”.
Anyway, here’s what we came up with the last time rules were discussed:
[i][size=1]Throwdown Sparring Rules:
The following are restricted:
* Eye gouging of any kind.
* "Girl Fighting" (Biting, Hair pulling, Scratching)
* Fish hooking.
* Groin attacks of any kind.
* Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or laceration on an opponent.
* Small joint manipulation.
* Striking to the spine or the back of the head.
* Striking downward using the point of the elbow.
* Throat strikes of any kind,
* Grabbing the clavicle.
* Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.
* Kneeing the head
* Stomping a grounded opponent.
* Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
* Throwing an opponent out of the ring, mat, or fenced area
* Spitting at an opponent.
* [b]Being an asshole, aka purposely injuring someone you know you can outclass. If it should become evident that you are much better than your sparring partner, you are expected to balance demonstrating it conclusively with avoiding injuring them or allowing them to injure themselves. ("Controlled Ownage" clause).[/b]
Sparring matches will be concluded by:
* Physical tap out.
* Verbal tap out.
Equipment:
Each person must wear at least:
*Near-Full face headgear
*Shin guards
*forearm/elbow guards
*NHB style gloves (with no crossbar in palm)
*Mouthpiece
Time limit: No time limit[/i][/size]
These rules are designed as a guide for participants to test their martial arts skills against each other more realistically than many are used to, with additional consideration given to safety. If participants are willing and agree to do so beforehand, they can dispense with some if not all of the rules. However, at a minimum these are what will qualify as full participation in a Throwdown event.
Suggestions for equipment: Linked through Bullshido’s Amazon affiliate code (meaning we get a small kickback if you buy through them… you’re not required to do so however).
On both counts, that’s what we’ve been trying to do here in MD. None of us really knew each other before the TDs, but after, we’ve become a pretty tight group. I think it’s great that local Bullshidoka can come together to help train and test each other. I can learn things from Groundcontrol and JFS that I wouldn’t be able to with out actually joining another school, and God knows I just don’t have time for that.
On the idea of letting individuals set the terms for their matches, it’s both our advantage and disadvantage. It’s good because some people just aren’t ready for certain things, and might not participate otherwise. However, some have no conception of their abilities, both for better or worse. You can get some relative n00b who thinks he can handle it, but all of the sudden find out he can’t. On the flip side, you can have someone with enough experience to know what they’re doing, but not enough control.
When you are trying to pressure test yourself, it really doesn’t do you any good unless the other guy applies full pressure. Question is, how do you accomplish this in front of the media/onlookers without looking like hooligans? I think the answer is in requiring plenty of protective gear. Mouthpiece, gloves, cup, headgear at a minimum.
Here are the rules we put in place at the Ohio TD last month: No striking against a joint, no eye gouging, and stop if the other guy can’t take it. We had MMA gloves and mouth pieces, and went at it on a hard wood floor. If the management of the YMCA had any idea of what was going on, I’ll bet we would have been tossed out of there. It was intense. Some guy came up to the other guys and asked if we were “ultimate fighters” they told him that we were practicing to put on a play.
Anyway, with the media around ~ I think they would have been shocked to see that going down. It can’t be like that when the public eye is on us, unless you want to take that road, and damn the torpedoes.
I don’t think we should compromise full pressure for the media, it’s what’s necessary for the individuals here to grow as MAs. IMO. So, thoughts?