Your own thread soon enough

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689680]Sure. Working on weakness is vital. However, there is much drilling and progressive resistance when learning a technique. After that, using a certain idea or technique in sparring shouldnt be an issue.

If I want t work a jab, for instance. Im going to try to keep you on the outside with footwork, feints, and kicking. This is going to keep you at the proper range for me to work my jab. All of this is after Ive learned the proper mechanics and drilled it sufficiently against a resistant partner, on the bag, with focus mitts, and against various attacks.[/QUOTE]

I see a lot of words, but I’m unsure of the meaning. What is your definition of sparring? What is your definition of resistant partner?

Wow,lot more responses than I anticipated.I apologize in advance if I leave anyone out.

With that said I believe some of you may have misread me a little. Im not saying dont try new things and Im not saying dont try them in a sparring match. Im saying that practicing one technique shouldnt be the focus of your sparring match.

Theres pleny of other work out there that you can be doing before you get punched for trying it in a match. Theres Shadow Boxing, Bag Work, Focus Mitt and strike pad work, theres partner drilling (which sounds like what many of you are doing), for all you TMA guys, theres kata as well. I Gave a short example of this in my earlier posts when I mentioned working a jab into my sparring. If you’re doing something sloppily in practice, or havent done it enough in practice then you shouldnt be doing it in a match. Not only can it be dangerous for yourself but also for your partner.

Martial Arts at its core is about one thing, defense. Try your submission or your strike, but at the end of the day its still all about defense, which means walking away the victor should be of some concern. When you begin to think,“Ah it doesnt matter, it was just a sparring match” Thats a problem.

First of all, this kind of thinking can lead to a relaxation that can lead to bad habits. “I dont have to try to do this properly because if it doesnt land the other guy isnt gonna beat me down” When your only going 50 to 70 percent anyways, any less might as well not bother with it. If a guy going 70 percent took advantage of what you are doing so will the guy who really does want to hurt you. Anything done half assed isnt worth doing, IMO.

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689752]Martial Arts at its core is about one thing, defense. Try your submission or your strike, but at the end of the day its still all about defense, which means walking away the victor should be of some concern. When you begin to think,“Ah it doesnt matter, it was just a sparring match” Thats a problem.

First of all, this kind of thinking can lead to a relaxation that can lead to bad habits. “I dont have to try to do this properly because if it doesnt land the other guy isnt gonna beat me down” When your only going 50 to 70 percent anyways, any less might as well not bother with it. If a guy going 70 percent took advantage of what you are doing so will the guy who really does want to hurt you. Anything done half assed isnt worth doing, IMO.[/QUOTE]

  1. Martial arts are about defense only? What about offense? Unless you meant to type self-defense.

  2. How long have you been training?

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689752]Wow,lot more responses than I anticipated.I apologize in advance if I leave anyone out.

With that said I believe some of you may have misread me a little. Im not saying dont try new things and Im not saying dont try them in a sparring match. Im saying that practicing one technique shouldnt be the focus of your sparring match.

Theres pleny of other work out there that you can be doing before you get punched for trying it in a match. Theres Shadow Boxing, Bag Work, Focus Mitt and strike pad work, theres partner drilling (which sounds like what many of you are doing), for all you TMA guys, theres kata as well. I Gave a short example of this in my earlier posts when I mentioned working a jab into my sparring. If you’re doing something sloppily in practice, or havent done it enough in practice then you shouldnt be doing it in a match. Not only can it be dangerous for yourself but also for your partner.

Martial Arts at its core is about one thing, defense. Try your submission or your strike, but at the end of the day its still all about defense, which means walking away the victor should be of some concern. When you begin to think,“Ah it doesnt matter, it was just a sparring match” Thats a problem.

First of all, this kind of thinking can lead to a relaxation that can lead to bad habits. “I dont have to try to do this properly because if it doesnt land the other guy isnt gonna beat me down” When your only going 50 to 70 percent anyways, any less might as well not bother with it. If a guy going 70 percent took advantage of what you are doing so will the guy who really does want to hurt you. Anything done half assed isnt worth doing, IMO.[/QUOTE]

Every time you post it’s like there is a Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter type bar in the top corner that keeps on reducing, but instead of indicating how much “life” you have left, it indicates how much respect I have for your opinion. At the moment the screen is flashing a bold “FINISH HIM”.

[QUOTE=jnp;2689767]1. Martial arts are about defense only? What about offense? Unless you meant to type self-defense.

  1. How long have you been training?[/QUOTE]

When I said defense,I meant selfdefense as a general term

22 years.

[QUOTE=battlefields;2689795]Every time you post it’s like there is a Mortal Kombat/Street Fighter type bar in the top corner that keeps on reducing, but instead of indicating how much “life” you have left, it indicates how much respect I have for your opinion. At the moment the screen is flashing a bold “FINISH HIM”.[/QUOTE]

Well,then let’s have it. Hand down your “fatality” with whatever unforessen knowledge you MUST possess, since you’ve obviously said soo much that was relavent to the conversation already…

Sorry about the multiple posts but I have to address something else.Im not advocating going in the gym and destroying some noob. I have a ton of respect for most everyone,in or out of the dojo.

Secondly, I dont train with any inexperienced fighters, other than my children.

…Uh yeah $5 says this dude “that guy” at the gym. The one people roll their eyes at and tries to “win” every spar.

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689802]Well,then let’s have it. Hand down your “fatality” with whatever unforessen knowledge you MUST possess, since you’ve obviously said soo much that was relavent to the conversation already…[/QUOTE]

Sweet, cause I have a three hit combo:

  1. Unforessen= unforeseen- obviously a typo, however, what that says to me is you are careless with what you write, or do not proofread. This is a sign of reactionary thinking, that you act on impulse.

  2. Relavent= relevant- not so obvious a typo, same above applies if it is a typo. If not a typo, then it is bad spelling and, although this does not preclude the presence of intelligence, it often is an indicator of certain things.

  3. Dude, you are advocating always trying to “win” in sparring, after several people have given better examples of why “winning” in sparring could be detrimental.

Your extremely vague allusions regarding drilling and partnering with increasing resistance smacks of someone who does not train in an alive manner and therefore doesn’t “get” sparring. Now, believe me when I say I am not accusing you of actually being someone who doesn’t “get” sparring. I can’t actually tell because your responses are so vague as to be meaningless, the way you represent how you spar has many of the hallmarks of a WTF TKD school.

It has been advocated early in this thread that in sparring you should at some stage work on your weaknesses. You come along and say basically either “no, you should have already worked on your weaknesses before you spar” or you advocate using your A game in every sparring session. Doesn’t fly.

Reasoning: I am relatively good at maintaining top control, a “winning” position while rolling. The problem was that I relied on it so much that when I hit my back, I was fucked. So instead of “winning” at sparring, I started dragging people into my guard and trying to work some sweeps. Now, I’ve drilled sweeps again and again, against increasingly resistant partners, but that was drilling sweeps against someone who is resisting against sweeps only, in free rolling they can use the attempt at sweeping to try any number of techniques against me, submissions, transitions, positions. Just because someone is resisting against a technique while drilling doesn’t mean that it is instantly applicable in a free sparring environment, there are many, many other factors which is why you must test your weaknesses in sparring (which is training).

For a long time I remained on my back during free rolling, no matter what I attempted, but it was better for my mental that I learn how to be in a “losing” position. Psychologically I had to toughen up, I had to realise that I was in a shitty position and not flip out because when I flipped out I gassed. Soon I wasn’t flipping out and thus wasn’t gassing, which meant I could work for positions with which to apply the sweeps. It took me a long time and plenty of “failures” before I even hit one sweep. Then I had another. Guess what I am okay at now? Did you guess sweeps? Good, you might regain my respect someday. If you didn’t, well, intelligence is bestowed on but a few. I still get owned, I still do some owning, but the reality is that when I am sparring I am trying to improve my entire game, not trying to prove my A game is awesome.

I couldn’t help it, I had to hit a few extra buttons on my controller so the three hit combo became one of those KOs where I stand there holding your head and spine.

[QUOTE=battlefields;2689843]Now, I’ve drilled sweeps again and again, against increasingly resistant partners, but that was drilling sweeps against someone who is resisting against sweeps only, in free rolling they can use the attempt at sweeping to try any number of techniques against me, submissions, transitions, positions. Just because someone is resisting against a technique while drilling doesn’t mean that it is instantly applicable in a free sparring environment[/QUOTE]

This is fucking poignant.

[QUOTE=Colin;2689845]This is fucking poignant.[/QUOTE]

Cheers, bro.

So is this:

Anything written by battlefields

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689752] First of all, this kind of thinking can lead to a relaxation that can lead to bad habits. “I dont have to try to do this properly because if it doesnt land the other guy isnt gonna beat me down” When your only going 50 to 70 percent anyways, any less might as well not bother with it. If a guy going 70 percent took advantage of what you are doing so will the guy who really does want to hurt you. Anything done half assed isnt worth doing, IMO. [/QUOTE]Damn this is terrible. Just because someone doesn’t train to “win at sparring,” they are not doing something half-assed.[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689800]
22 years.[/QUOTE]You count years from when you were 6 or 7 don’t you?

[QUOTE=It is Fake;2689851]Damn this is terrible. Just because someone doesn’t train to “win at sparring,” they are not doing something half-assed.[/QUOTE]

I think it’s high time we saw some videos of ChenZen sparring :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=battlefields;2689843]Sweet, cause I have a three hit combo:

  1. Unforessen= unforeseen- obviously a typo, however, what that says to me is you are careless with what you write, or do not proofread. This is a sign of reactionary thinking, that you act on impulse.

  2. Relavent= relevant- not so obvious a typo, same above applies if it is a typo. If not a typo, then it is bad spelling and, although this does not preclude the presence of intelligence, it often is an indicator of certain things.

  3. Dude, you are advocating always trying to “win” in sparring, after several people have given better examples of why “winning” in sparring could be detrimental.

Your extremely vague allusions regarding drilling and partnering with increasing resistance smacks of someone who does not train in an alive manner and therefore doesn’t “get” sparring. Now, believe me when I say I am not accusing you of actually being someone who doesn’t “get” sparring. I can’t actually tell because your responses are so vague as to be meaningless, the way you represent how you spar has many of the hallmarks of a WTF TKD school.

It has been advocated early in this thread that in sparring you should at some stage work on your weaknesses. You come along and say basically either “no, you should have already worked on your weaknesses before you spar” or you advocate using your A game in every sparring session. Doesn’t fly.

Reasoning: I am relatively good at maintaining top control, a “winning” position while rolling. The problem was that I relied on it so much that when I hit my back, I was fucked. So instead of “winning” at sparring, I started dragging people into my guard and trying to work some sweeps. Now, I’ve drilled sweeps again and again, against increasingly resistant partners, but that was drilling sweeps against someone who is resisting against sweeps only, in free rolling they can use the attempt at sweeping to try any number of techniques against me, submissions, transitions, positions. Just because someone is resisting against a technique while drilling doesn’t mean that it is instantly applicable in a free sparring environment, there are many, many other factors which is why you must test your weaknesses in sparring (which is training).

For a long time I remained on my back during free rolling, no matter what I attempted, but it was better for my mental that I learn how to be in a “losing” position. Psychologically I had to toughen up, I had to realise that I was in a shitty position and not flip out because when I flipped out I gassed. Soon I wasn’t flipping out and thus wasn’t gassing, which meant I could work for positions with which to apply the sweeps. It took me a long time and plenty of “failures” before I even hit one sweep. Then I had another. Guess what I am okay at now? Did you guess sweeps? Good, you might regain my respect someday. If you didn’t, well, intelligence is bestowed on but a few. I still get owned, I still do some owning, but the reality is that when I am sparring I am trying to improve my entire game, not trying to prove my A game is awesome.

I couldn’t help it, I had to hit a few extra buttons on my controller so the three hit combo became one of those KOs where I stand there holding your head and spine.[/QUOTE]

Wow, all of that build up and suspense for a rather lackluster conclusion. Well lets get at it shall we?

Two thirds of your “arguement” is a crude attempt at a pschological profile based on a typo. You think it has some profound meaning as to who I am well let me help you out. It means I dont have enough computer experience to know how to run spellcheck and I dont always proofread.
The fact that you were willing to spend so much timeand energy pointing it out says much more about you than any typo could ever say about me. Like perhaps you havent fully matured, perhaps you dont know how to behave like a real martial artist, or perhaps that you felt like it would strengthen your arguement just to have put a few more words on a page. The arrogant and disrespectful rant of some of your buddies says much about them as well.

For a site that claims to be about serious Martial Artists, a few of you are acting rather petty.Making assumptions as to how I behave or train simply because I disagree?Rather schoolyard dont ya think?

Let me assure you that one day, I will take a computer course so as not to offend anyones delicate sensabilities.

Your third point was simply to remind me that Im disagreeing with the masses? So I should agree simply to agree? No thanks.

As for the rest of your case. I almost agree. Almost.I never said “Dont work on weaknesses in sparring” In fact I said Work them, but dont make them the sole aspect of the match. I gave an example of how I would work a jab into my training, if that was what I wanted to work. READ guys. Strategy.

If you want to work a certain aspect, then you should try to work this in by forcing your opponent into that position. For example, If I want to work the clinch, Im not going to wade across the mat and try to grab my partner. Im going to work my boxing to get in close,Im going to make him WANT to clinch.

That is the best way to go about your sparring. Controlling the opponents decisions has as much to do with fighting as throwing a proper punch. If you make the decisions for him, how could you lose?

To quote cheesy movie lines “If you can force your opponent to change, then in essence he has defeated himself.”

A sparring match is a two way street. You do your partner a disservice by taking it too easy or “letting them win”. You will give him a false sense of ability. You can also help him develope bad habits. Since he landed that takedown once or twice he thought it was good and proper when really you were just worried about training your roundhouse.

Also,you cant focus too much on one aspect. Its a counter productive idea in a sparring match. If you go into a match with the thought process that your going to “train block “A” against strike “B” regardless of the outcome” then chances are you missed the fact that while you didnt land block “A”, Block “B” "C"and “D” fit perfectly. Some of these will be things you already train or use frequently but some of these things occur at the spur of the moment and can be real gems later.

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689862]blah blah blah[/QUOTE]

And not a single word of that diatribe was remotely related to the actual argument at hand. You talk so much yet say so little.

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689862]Wow, all of that build up and suspense for a rather lackluster conclusion. Well lets get at it shall we?

Two thirds of your “arguement” is a crude attempt at a pschological profile based on a typo. You think it has some profound meaning as to who I am well let me help you out. It means I dont have enough computer experience to know how to run spellcheck and I dont always proofread.
The fact that you were willing to spend so much timeand energy pointing it out says much more about you than any typo could ever say about me. Like perhaps you havent fully matured, perhaps you dont know how to behave like a real martial artist, or perhaps that you felt like it would strengthen your arguement just to have put a few more words on a page. The arrogant and disrespectful rant of some of your buddies says much about them as well.

For a site that claims to be about serious Martial Artists, a few of you are acting rather petty.Making assumptions as to how I behave or train simply because I disagree?Rather schoolyard dont ya think?

Let me assure you that one day, I will take a computer course so as not to offend anyones delicate sensabilities.

Your third point was simply to remind me that Im disagreeing with the masses? So I should agree simply to agree? No thanks.

As for the rest of your case. I almost agree. Almost.I never said “Dont work on weaknesses in sparring” In fact I said Work them, but dont make them the sole aspect of the match. I gave an example of how I would work a jab into my training, if that was what I wanted to work. READ guys. Strategy.

If you want to work a certain aspect, then you should try to work this in by forcing your opponent into that position. For example, If I want to work the clinch, Im not going to wade across the mat and try to grab my partner. Im going to work my boxing to get in close,Im going to make him WANT to clinch.

That is the best way to go about your sparring. Controlling the opponents decisions has as much to do with fighting as throwing a proper punch. If you make the decisions for him, how could you lose?

To quote cheesy movie lines “If you can force your opponent to change, then in essence he has defeated himself.”

A sparring match is a two way street. You do your partner a disservice by taking it too easy or “letting them win”. You will give him a false sense of ability. You can also help him develope bad habits. Since he landed that takedown once or twice he thought it was good and proper when really you were just worried about training your roundhouse.

Also,you cant focus too much on one aspect. Its a counter productive idea in a sparring match. If you go into a match with the thought process that your going to “train block “A” against strike “B” regardless of the outcome” then chances are you missed the fact that while you didnt land block “A”, Block “B” "C"and “D” fit perfectly. Some of these will be things you already train or use frequently but some of these things occur at the spur of the moment and can be real gems later.[/QUOTE]
The best part of this is your fixation on examples. The FACT you think these people only work one aspect of their game is pure ignorance on your part. Letting them win? Taking it easy on them? Wow, you have your face in the punch bowl full of Kool-aid dontcha? The fact that you don’t think you can spar hard, without winning, is tiresome.

Please, keep moving the goal posts and showing us your ignorance, it is quite fun.

Last edited by Chen Zen fromFA; 5/12/2012 11:54pm at . Reason: SpellcheckHAHA
No, you didn’t LOL.

Edit:

Oh no, we have the first instance of “THE REAL.” It is all downhill from here.

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689862]Wow, all of that build up and suspense for a rather lackluster conclusion. Well lets get at it shall we?

Two thirds of your “arguement” is a crude attempt at a pschological profile based on a typo. You think it has some profound meaning as to who I am well let me help you out. It means I dont have enough computer experience to know how to run spellcheck and I dont always proofread.
The fact that you were willing to spend so much timeand energy pointing it out says much more about you than any typo could ever say about me. Like perhaps you havent fully matured, perhaps you dont know how to behave like a real martial artist, or perhaps that you felt like it would strengthen your arguement just to have put a few more words on a page. The arrogant and disrespectful rant of some of your buddies says much about them as well.

For a site that claims to be about serious Martial Artists, a few of you are acting rather petty.Making assumptions as to how I behave or train simply because I disagree?Rather schoolyard dont ya think?

Let me assure you that one day, I will take a computer course so as not to offend anyones delicate sensabilities.

Your third point was simply to remind me that Im disagreeing with the masses? So I should agree simply to agree? No thanks.

As for the rest of your case. I almost agree. Almost.I never said “Dont work on weaknesses in sparring” In fact I said Work them, but dont make them the sole aspect of the match. I gave an example of how I would work a jab into my training, if that was what I wanted to work. READ guys. Strategy.

If you want to work a certain aspect, then you should try to work this in by forcing your opponent into that position. For example, If I want to work the clinch, Im not going to wade across the mat and try to grab my partner. Im going to work my boxing to get in close,Im going to make him WANT to clinch.

That is the best way to go about your sparring. Controlling the opponents decisions has as much to do with fighting as throwing a proper punch. If you make the decisions for him, how could you lose?

To quote cheesy movie lines “If you can force your opponent to change, then in essence he has defeated himself.”

A sparring match is a two way street. You do your partner a disservice by taking it too easy or “letting them win”. You will give him a false sense of ability. You can also help him develope bad habits. Since he landed that takedown once or twice he thought it was good and proper when really you were just worried about training your roundhouse.

Also,you cant focus too much on one aspect. Its a counter productive idea in a sparring match. If you go into a match with the thought process that your going to “train block “A” against strike “B” regardless of the outcome” then chances are you missed the fact that while you didnt land block “A”, Block “B” "C"and “D” fit perfectly. Some of these will be things you already train or use frequently but some of these things occur at the spur of the moment and can be real gems later.[/QUOTE]

Do I really have to answer this schlock?

You completely missed the point, even though Colin specifically quoted the most poignant part for you.

And that psychological profile I am preparing on you? Yeah, you keep adding to it. Your posts are getting worse, many missing spaces and your spelling is deteriorating. You’re hitting the keys on that keyboard so hard that companies selling arthritis treatments have adjusted their marketing strategy to target you and only you, which is okay because there is space in your inbox due to the viagra and penis enlargement spammers deeming your penis and performance “beyond assistance” and blacklisting your email address among the industry.

[QUOTE=battlefields;2689880]Do I really have to answer this schlock?

You completely missed the point, even though Colin specifically quoted the most poignant part for you.

And that psychological profile I am preparing on you? Yeah, you keep adding to it. Your posts are getting worse, many missing spaces and your spelling is deteriorating. You’re hitting the keys on that keyboard so hard that companies selling arthritis treatments have adjusted their marketing strategy to target you and only you, which is okay because there is space in your inbox due to the viagra and penis enlargement spammers deeming your penis and performance “beyond assistance” and blacklisting your email address among the industry.[/QUOTE]

LOL Thats pretty good.Seriously.Had a laugh. As for my spacing and spelling, nothing more than a late night and an uncooperative keyboard. No more No less. Im beyond getting angry at internet tough guys, Ive had my share.

You know, as I read over some of your posts,I wonder how many of you are truly Martial artists. If you get so aggravated simply by someone disagreeing with you, I wonder how easy it would be to frustrate you when in a match. So far its been effortless.

You guys keep saying the same thing. “Dont win. Work Weakness”

All Im saying is “Do Both” or at least TRY. I havent won every sparring match Ive ever been in, far from it, but I try to win, everytime. If I lose, its because mypartner deserved to win, not because I decided to lose so I can work on technique X. Such decisions may help me but they cheapen the experience of my partner.

Most of you have read my posts and jumped on a bandwagon thinking Im simply saying “WIN at all cost” but thats not the message. Look at the firsts posts. All I said is I try to win. Thats all. I never advocated being the gym bully, or working solely on your A game. You wont see any of that coming from me. I simply have offered up an alternative way to think about the situation and training mentioned here.

You dont have to agree, but you guys dont have to be childish dicks about it either. If you have a legit arguement, bring it. All I ask is that in your response, rather than talking shit about penis pills or injecting the thread with what YOU THINK I THINK, FAKE, simply bring a logical reponse.

Fake…sounds like a fitting name for many here. If all you can offer up is what you think Im thinking, then you truly must be fake. After all, a real man, a real martial artist, can have conversation,and can disagree, and still be respectful and civil. A lesson that most white belts understand, yet has magically managed to evademostof you SUPERIOR martial artists. Shameful…

[QUOTE=Chen Zen fromFA;2689912]

You guys keep saying the same thing. “Dont win. Work Weakness”[/quote] No one said this at all.

All Im saying is “Do Both” or at least TRY.
No, that’s what you are saying now. What you said first was:

I spar to win. I dont spar to hurt folks but I do spar to win. If I wanted to get hit Id just volunteer to be the kick pad
Then when hammered you backtracked. No, that isn’t saying do both. That came much later after trying to defend that ignorant comment.

I havent won every sparring match Ive ever been in, far from it, but I try to win, everytime. If I lose, its because mypartner deserved to win, not because I decided to lose so I can work on technique X. Such decisions may help me but they cheapen the experience of my partner.

Working a technique is now losing? Ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaa.

Most of you have read my posts and jumped on a bandwagon thinking Im simply saying “WIN at all cost” but thats not the message. Look at the firsts posts. All I said is I try to win. Thats all. I never advocated being the gym bully, or working solely on your A game. You wont see any of that coming from me. I simply have offered up an alternative way to think about the situation and training mentioned here.
No, no one said win at all costs but you.

You dont have to agree, but you guys dont have to be childish dicks about it either. If you have a legit arguement, bring it. All I ask is that in your response, rather than talking shit about penis pills or injecting the thread with what YOU THINK I THINK, FAKE.
Uhmm where did I say anything about dick jokes? I didn’t

Fake…sounds like a fitting name for many here. If all you can offer up is what you think Im thinking,
You don’t see the hypocrisy and irony in this sentence do you? No, you don’t.

then you truly must be fake.
Yep, that’s me.

After all, a real man, a real martial artist, can have conversation,and can disagree, and still be respectful and civil. A lesson that most white belts understand, yet has magically managed to evademostof you SUPERIOR martial artists. Shameful…
Shameful? LOL. Shameful is the fact you have trained for 22 years and think winning has anything to so with sparring. Shameful is the fact that your posts sound exactly the same as they did nearly a decade ago. You know, when you were 18-19 modding a terrible forum and you often deleted posts because you couldn’t handle differing opinions.

Real men and women grow with knowledge, punk bitches whine and don’t see their own irony plus hypocrisy. Yep, that’s you.

Hahahahaaaa, perhaps you get the “for now” comment, eh, Chen?
Would you care to expound on the Zen portion of your name next?
:slight_smile: