Wong Kiew Kit on why there are no straight kungfu people in UFC

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Question 4
I am a fan of the Ultimate Fighting Championship (UFC) which is shown in US and starting to become very popular among martial arts fans. This is a freestyle martial arts competition where people from different martial arts background can come together and compete. I noticed that none of the martial arts champions were from Kung Fu background. If Shaolin Kung Fu is the best, how come so few with Kung Fu background make it to the finals? Maybe, some genuine Kung Fu masters from Asia should make it a point to compete in the UFC.
Ricky, Malaysia

Answer 4
There are three main reasons why very few kungfu practitioners take part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship. First, although many people practice kungfu or wushu, a very great majority of them do not spar. They cannot even defend themselves effectively against karate or taekwondo brown-belt; they would not take part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship as they know very well they would be seriously injured if they do so.

Secondly, some kungfu practitioners can spar, but they usually use karate, taekwondo, kickboxing or other martial art techniques when they spar. Some of them might have taken part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship but they would be beaten in the early rounds. The majority would not take part because they know they stand little chance.

The third reason is as follows. Kungfu practitioners who have a good chance to reach the finals in the Ultimate Fighting Championship are genuine kungfu masters, and they form a very small minority of the kungfu population. These kungfu masters would not like to take part for two main reasons. They know that many who take part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship are formidable, professional fighters. Even if the kungfu masters could reach the finals, they would have sustained much injury on the way. The kungfu masters do not want to put themselves to such risk.

Moreover, fighting for price money in public would be against their philosophy. The training in genuine kungfu is that the more combat efficient you have become, the less you would want to fight. This is difficult for many people to understand or appreciate this philosophy. Many would think, not unreasonably, that the kungfu masters actually could not fight, and this is only an excuse to save face. I can only say that it is not an excuse, it is a real reason.

Personally I know some genuine kungfu masters who are deadly efficient in fighting, but they would walk away under provocation, sometimes even in apparently humiliating conditions. This actually make them and kungfu great.

I would briefly explain this seemingly odd philosophy and behavior. Great kungfu is not just a fighting art, but also a process of spiritual development. Someone who has attained a high level of genuine kungfu would also have attained a high level of spiritual development. Fighting for fame or money, or to prove to others that his kungfu is superior is not in line with such spiritual development.

This philosophy and corresponding behavior are not completely altruistic. Genuine kungfu training also makes a person wise. A genuine kungfu master realizes that to win in the Ultimate Fighting Championship against deadly opponents, he might have to be drastic.

For example, when a formidable opponent rushes in to grab his legs to throw him onto the ground, followed by a deadly lock, as often shown in Ultimate Fighting Championship, the kungfu master might have to smash his palm or drive his fist into the opponent’s head to prevent his own defeat, which would be inevitable had the opponent be successful in grabbing his legs.

This could maim or kill the opponent. Even if rules of the competition specified that no legal actions could be taken against him, there could be complications. One of my kungfu masters, whose name I would not reveal here, was an example. Another kungfu master insulted his kungfu style as well as challenged him to a fight. Despite being restrained by his parents, my sifu took the challenge and killed the other master with a kick. To avoid inevitable revenge from the victim’s side, my sifu escaped to Malaysia that very night. Although this event spread his style of kungfu to Malaysia and later to other parts of the world, my sifu regretted his rash action for life.

http://wongkk.com/answers/ans02a/apr02-3.html

I think that it’s cool that he acknowledges that a lot of straight kungfu people suck from lack of sparring, and furthermore it’s cool that he acknowledges that he’d be fuxxored if someone took him down, but OTOH he’s still just telling the usual “too deadly for the ring” spiel.

I dunno, I actually like Wong Kiew Kit more than a lot of CMA nutriders on the internet because at least Wong Kiew Kit acknowledges that a great many kungfu people suck and acknowledges that today’s UFC fighters are tough.

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Sifu Andria Pivcevic is my instructor for about 4,6 years he teaches in rio de janeiro, brazil i’m not finding the first coment about him in this topic, if anyone has any doubt about him send me an e-mail
pedromutley@gmail.com

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i have a theory on ‘Andria Pivcevic’ if this is his name… i think he may be a half decent wing chun man who is based in the UK (where someone states CF is from) and CF and Andria Pivcevic may be one and the same. I am booked into a seminar of his in Ealing, London on 11th May 2008 so i shall let you know about his quality! I’m going to get a taste of the YKS wing chun lineage that i am very interested in learning in. although from information on the internet it could be YKS, HFY, or Chi Sim wing (weng) chun! will let you all know!

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I thought he spoke with a lot of sense.

He still maintains the ‘too deadly’ angle, which taints his credibility a little, but who knows. Maybe he really can fuck you up with one shot.

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Yeah, some of his stuff interests me.

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Agreed.

What I didn’t like, though, was the “spiritual enlightenment” thing. They are too “enlightened” to fight in the ring. The UFC is a SPORT! It’s about competition, much like football or chess. Do these enlightened souls walk away from all rough sports?

Starting fight on the street to compare penisis is one thing, but competing in a sport is something else.

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Right, alot of UFC matches go to decision. But even still, I’ve seen Muay Thaai fighters, walking with tiny little baby steps the next day, after winning a 5 round decision, so I don’t know about the loser. Losing an MMA can in some cases be bad. Although it’s often not so bad, if most of the fight is a ground fight. But some ground guys get GnPed.

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I can understand if someone says “Hey, it’s great, but it doesn’t interest me to compete”. That’s how I feel now, although ten years ago it was a different story. As people get older, get professional jobs, families etc their desire to fight will naturally wan. However, surely there must be some young “kung-fu bad-asses” out there willing to step up and make some cash?

I really dislike the whole “enlightenment” thing too. It’s a cop-out. A lot of kung-fu styles had close links to the Triads. Even Yip-man was an opium addict. How is that enlightened?

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Serious harm: See Enson INoue’s face after Igor Vovchanchyn pounded his brains out of his ears.

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Quote: They cannot even defend themselves effectively against karate or taekwondo brown-belt; they would not take part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship as they know very well they would be seriously injured if they do so.

Translation: In short…we suck…we really suck…

Quote: . The majority would not take part because they know they stand little chance.

Translation: We know we suck…so why risk our reputation?

Quote: These kungfu masters would not like to take part for two main reasons. They know that many who take part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship are formidable, professional fighters. Even if the kungfu masters could reach the finals, :they would have sustained much injury on the way. The kungfu masters do not want to put themselves to such risk.

Translation: We are pussies who suck and don’t want to bruise our fragile bodies…“mommy the mean MMA man actually kicked me…hard”

Quote: Moreover, fighting for price money in public would be against their philosophy.

But selling your “teh deadly style” for thousands of dollar isn’t…:rolleyes:

Quote: Personally I know some genuine kungfu masters who are deadly efficient in fighting, but they would walk away under provocation, sometimes even in apparently humiliating conditions.

Translation: We are cowardly pussies who rather get walked all over than actually defend ourselves even when we should so we can then claim it was out of “principle” so we don’t look the cowardly little wussies we actually are…Disgusting…cowardice poses as moral conviction.

Quote: For example, when a formidable opponent rushes in to grab his legs to throw him onto the ground, followed by a deadly lock, as often shown in Ultimate Fighting Championship, the kungfu master might have to smash his palm or drive his fist into the opponent’s head to prevent his own defeat, which would be inevitable had the opponent be successful in grabbing his legs.

This could maim or kill the opponent.

ohhh…its TEH DEADLY IRON PALM STRIKE…

:eek: Nobody has ever tried that before

Quote: Even if rules of the competition specified that no legal actions could be taken against him, there could be complications. One of my kungfu masters, whose name I would not reveal here, was an example. Another kungfu master insulted his kungfu style as well as challenged him to a fight. Despite being restrained by his parents, my sifu took the challenge and killed the other master with a kick. To avoid inevitable revenge from the victim’s side, my sifu escaped to Malaysia that very night.

No kung-fu defense would complete without it…a bitter rivalry, lost family/dojo pride, the exile NINJA…sorry Kung-fu master now roams the earth helping poor families against EVILUglyCriminalThugs ™…using his deadly hokuto kenshin exploding head technique… let me guess the name of his former master is Jackie Chan… spare me

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He seems to imply that Karate and Taekwondo techniqes are worse than true kung fu. But maybe I’m reading too much into the phrasing.

Anyway, the first bit is spot-on, but then it devolves into typical “lol iron palm > takedown roofle owned scrub”.

What they need is a young, strong and hungry kung fu fighter willing to eschew the philosophy and add a ground game. Presto! Blad3 gets his video evidence.

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I think it was in UFC 6 or something I saw an Asian guy practicing Kung Fu vs (I think) Guy Metzger, who proceeded to repeatedly punch him in the groin while they were on the ground.

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Did Guy stomp the shit out of him?

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Originally posted by Wong Kiew Kit
The third reason is as follows. Kungfu practitioners who have a good chance to reach the finals in the Ultimate Fighting Championship are genuine kungfu masters, and they form a very small minority of the kungfu population. These kungfu masters would not like to take part for two main reasons. They know that many who take part in the Ultimate Fighting Championship are formidable, professional fighters. Even if the kungfu masters could reach the finals, they would have sustained much injury on the way. The kungfu masters do not want to put themselves to such risk.

There’s an add in Australia for one our states and I think it sums it up pretty well if anyone of any style says they can do this or that but aren’t willing to test it in a live environment.

“You’ll never never know if you never never go”

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Originally posted by xero
Did Guy stomp the shit out of him?

Whoever it was did a big number on the Asian Kung-Fu stylist. Asides from the “fist to nuts” style, he dominated the fight.

==

Hahaha, what I just typed reminded me of that scene from Kung Pow between Chosen One and Wimp Lo:

“HAHA! Face to foot style! Howdja like it?”

“Iiiiiii’m sure that on whatever planet you’re from, your technique is formidable. Your one problem is… this is Earth.”

“Oh yeah? Try my nuts-to-your-fist technique!”

“Please, Chosen One, stop! Wimp Lo sucks as a fighter, a child could beat him!”

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People always knock the “too deadly” stuff here…and admittedly, a lot of it is just bs.

But I was thinking just now…in a “fight”, not sparring, not points, full contact life-or-death a punch from Mas Oyama or hell Kimbo could quite possibly kill you. Those two examples were basically what I would consider “people who do not fuck around”.

So lets be honest here, if someone focuses their training on punching, kicking, or elbowing so hard they could break bones, what kind of disadvantage do they have in a “friendly” sparring match when obviously they aren’t going to flat out demolish the other person?

I know I will catch a lot of shit, but I do think in some cases people who only focus on the real confrontation and don’t worry about competitive matches with opponents will be at a disadvantage, in much the same way I suspect some of the people who knock this would be at a serious disadvantage the first time they really get clocked by someone who isn’t going for a point or a technicality of contact (or similarly get an arm broken because the opponent is going to let them “tap out”). NOTE - No, I do not think the secrets of ass-monkey style kung fu’s 36th chamber counts.

As for “enlightenment” I don’t like the way what I saw was phrased, but conversely I don’t see anything wrong with people who don’t want to compete in a sporting event…I think JohnnyS covered it best in saying one aspect of it is you get older and focus on other parts of your life change that kind of drive. Sorry to be crude but I think the change is generally something along of the lines of you don’t feel the need to whip it out to see who’s is bigger…your content just knowing yours works and you get to use it. :slight_smile:

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Only gay kung fu people in UFC.

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It was all good till he got to th3 d34dly.

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The guy believes he can cure all diseases using chi.
His graphical descriptions of techniques shows him doing 2 or 3 techniques in the time it takes his opponent to do 1 (aka zombie attacker).
He charges a few thousand dollars per session (plus you have to fly to Malaysia and back again for this privelage of being ripped off).
It’s obvious that there are too many people wanting to believe hong kong flicks who have more money than sense. He doesn’t need to prove himself because he’s already raking it in.

Also, forgive me if I’m wrong, but don’t most people believe that the old kung fu masters fought each other in order to test their techniques and learn new techniques? What makes him different? Oh, he just KNOWS that he can kick everyone’s arse, so it would be wrong for him to humiliate them. Better for them to think they are learning how to defend themselves with their silly MMA. If he really believed that, he’d want to educate them so that if they ever needed to defend their lives they could use the true kung fu instead of their silly MMA. :rolleyes:

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This thread is ghey, i cant believe this thread is on bullshido. Some of these posts just make me crack up.