Your pretty much the only person that made any sense on this thread, I completely agree with you after watching countless WC vs Style videos on youtube, the reason why SOME/Not All WC guys revert to some crappy kickboxing style when confronted with a style that pops in and out of distance not based on touched countering is because they are just not use to sparring like that since all there sparring is based around chi sao
[QUOTE=Kouch;2558870]its not that they DONT practice and take those flaws into consideration, they just dont line up with the wing chun ideas… bob n’ weave. feinting, etc. its not chasing center so its not necessarily part of the “curriculum” and because its not, they are rarely practiced or totally ignored in some places. which i agree is a huge mistake. you have to remember that wing chun is a system of concepts. as in…they are just ideas and strategies to base your fighting off of.[/QUOTE]
Firstly, I DIDN’T NECRO THIS! The trollbait above me did.
Thank you for ranting incoherently and/or stating the obvious and/or suggest the good old “we have the R34L”.
Pick whichever one you think fits you.
I pick I have the R34L kang foo, if you disagree, what are you saying
WC is completely useless?
WC is da best?
I don’t even know where you stand, you just seem to insult anyone who says anything rational
My personal opinion on WC is that it’s pretty good, it has a lot that could be useful but because of wrong training eg instead of sparring they do mostly Chi Sao, it makes them completely ill prepared for a fight with someone who doesn’t fight them from a starting touch position.
[QUOTE=Colin;2567757]Firstly, I DIDN’T NECRO THIS! The trollbait above me did.
Thank you for ranting incoherently and/or stating the obvious and/or suggest the good old “we have the R34L”.
Pick whichever one you think fits you.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HiddenPenguin;2567761]
I don’t even know where you stand, you just seem to insult anyone who says anything rational[/QUOTE]
Why don’t you actually READ the thread and see just how wrong you are about that.
I don’t seem to remember reading any actual responses, just a lot of sarcastic responses stating kouch is wrong or that you are too tired to state why he is wrong.
I guess this is off topic from the original post on why WC is hated. I’m more debating that WC is useful but because of bad training practices in some schools, it becomes useless.
[QUOTE=Colin;2567769]Why don’t you actually READ the thread and see just how wrong you are about that.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HiddenPenguin;2567776]I don’t seem to remember reading any actual responses, just a lot of sarcastic responses stating kouch is wrong or that you are too tired to state why he is wrong.
I guess this is off topic from the original post on why WC is hated. I’m more debating that WC is useful but because of bad training practices in some schools, it becomes useless.[/QUOTE]
The reason you are gettin this response is because you are defending an art that has never managed to hold up in full contact competition, and the only man we can really hold responsible for this enourmous MA lie, is dead, so we cant ask him exactly what the hell he was thinking , or why he lied about beating up anyone other than junkies in opium dens.
People hate it, and people like you, because when it comes to proving their style, all of sudden they come up with excuses.
Really? You miss the entire point of the thread to insult someone and to restate what has been said many times?
Go ahead and explain to us why WC is broken and reiterate how some chun devolves into bad kickboxing.
[QUOTE=HiddenPenguin;2567776]
I guess this is off topic from the original post on why WC is hated. I’m more debating that WC is useful but because of bad training practices in some schools, it becomes useless.[/QUOTE]
No, it’s exactly on topic as to why it’s ‘hated’. Much of the posting on this thread has stated the opinion that, it’s not useful, as it hasn’t been pressure tested in ages, if it ever was. Chunners excuses for the chun (oh, you only trained 9 years, that’s why you can’t make it’s basics work), encourage the hatred, if we can call it that.
Crosstraining shores up the weaknesses, but that further shows how incomplete the chun is.
I’ll put it this way. In my opinion…Chun is bad training practice. Designed to fail. People who ‘make it work’, borrow from outside it’s shitty incomplete walls…or only test it in compliant, or limited ways, that mask the inefficiency.
For me, the worst thing about the chun, are the no0bs who defend it as the d3adly. That’s the hate-fostering fuel, that keeps it in crosshairs.
IT’S NOT DEADLY. ok?
[QUOTE=bobyclumsyninja;2567790]
I’ll put it this way. In my opinion…Chun is bad training practice. Designed to fail. People who ‘make it work’, borrow from outside it’s shitty incomplete walls…or only test it in compliant, or limited ways, that mask the inefficiency.
For me, the worst thing about the chun, are the no0bs who defend it as the d3adly. That’s the hate-fostering fuel, that keeps it in crosshairs.
IT’S NOT DEADLY. ok?[/QUOTE]
^^^Well put. How about this? If there’s a WC practitioner who is going to be in the Seattle area or lives in the Seattle area, I issue this opportunity…
I always here how the idea of Chainpunches™ is that while one may not bring down an opponent, multiple will, so here’s the offer: I will put my hands behind my head, and you can throw 10 unblocked Chainpunches™ into my midsection. They have to be real WC style centerline punches, no winding up or anything. We can video it, and my bet is that you will be unable to make me drop and probably won’t even get me to lose my stance.
Caveats:
- You cannot outweigh me by more than 10 lbs (I’m 220) and you can’t be some sort of super yoked bodybuilder.
- I need to somehow verify that your PRIMARY training is WC and that you don’t have some sort of big boxing background (preferably someone known to this community who’s posted as a WC practitioner.) I don’t need Omega showing up in some borrowed silk pajamas and a copy of Ip Man signed by Donnie Yen himself.
- These have to be fast, one after another Chainpunches™, we all know the type.
There’s no prize here, but either way, the video will be posted on BS. It’s your big chance at Chainpunch™ glory here. Hell, maybe I’ll get pwn3d and have to eat my words…whatever.
I want to watch this. So badly.
I quit popcorn…now it’s back.
I disagree with you there, I actually believe Wing Chun has very good close quarter fighting. Especially trap work that is not often seen in other fighting style like Boxing/Karate. The only problem I see is that their training doesn’t foster good distance strategies or closing the gap strategies to make the WC work. I personally feel if there is something useful there it is not completely useless. If I was a grappler I wouldn’t cal kick boxing crap because it didn’t cover grappling.
[QUOTE=bobyclumsyninja;2567790]No, it’s exactly on topic as to why it’s ‘hated’. Much of the posting on this thread has stated the opinion that, it’s not useful, as it hasn’t been pressure tested in ages, if it ever was. Chunners excuses for the chun (oh, you only trained 9 years, that’s why you can’t make it’s basics work), encourage the hatred, if we can call it that.
Crosstraining shores up the weaknesses, but that further shows how incomplete the chun is.
I’ll put it this way. In my opinion…Chun is bad training practice. Designed to fail. People who ‘make it work’, borrow from outside it’s shitty incomplete walls…or only test it in compliant, or limited ways, that mask the inefficiency.
For me, the worst thing about the chun, are the no0bs who defend it as the d3adly. That’s the hate-fostering fuel, that keeps it in crosshairs.
IT’S NOT DEADLY. ok?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HiddenPenguin;2568216]I disagree with you there, I actually believe Wing Chun has very good close quarter fighting. Especially trap work that is not often seen in other fighting style like Boxing/Karate. The only problem I see is that their training doesn’t foster good distance strategies or closing the gap strategies to make the WC work. I personally feel if there is something useful there it is not completely useless. If I was a grappler I wouldn’t cal kick boxing crap because it didn’t cover grappling.[/QUOTE]
Now I may be fairly new to boxing but I am pretty damn sure boxing doesn’t have trapping as one of its main aspects. The only thing I can see boxing having to trapping is throwing a hook because the rest of the time you’re going to want to be as far away from the other guy as possible i.e. striking distance or you’re going to want to be as close as possible for clinch/grappling distance where as trapping is in between and the only reason you’d want to be less that a total arms length but farther than you can tie 'em up in boxing is if you wanted to hit someone with a hook or an uppercut. Not to mention that leading with a hook is fucking retarded so boxers are not going to actively get that close without hitting him first to cover your entry since he’d be able to hit you first before you got in.
I’ve always thought trapping was bullshit since anyone competent in fighting is going to either hit you before you get in while backing out to pretty much let yourself get punched in face or simply close the distance so they could manhandle you like a disposable realdoll.
I think trapping is done in striking distance almost near clinching distance
[QUOTE=P Marsh;2568224]Now I may be fairly new to boxing but I am pretty damn sure boxing doesn’t have trapping as one of its main aspects. The only thing I can see boxing having to trapping is throwing a hook because the rest of the time you’re going to want to be as far away from the other guy as possible i.e. striking distance or you’re going to want to be as close as possible for clinch/grappling distance where as trapping is in between and the only reason you’d want to be less that a total arms length but farther than you can tie 'em up in boxing is if you wanted to hit someone with a hook or an uppercut. Not to mention that leading with a hook is fucking retarded so boxers are not going to actively get that close without hitting him first to cover your entry since he’d be able to hit you first before you got in.
I’ve always thought trapping was bullshit since anyone competent in fighting is going to either hit you before you get in while backing out to pretty much let yourself get punched in face or simply close the distance so they could manhandle you like a disposable realdoll.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=HiddenPenguin;2568228]I think trapping is done in striking distance almost near clinching distance[/QUOTE]
You think, or you know? If you think so, why do you think that? If you know, how do you know? Have you ever done this mysterious trapping technique? From your posts in this thread, it sounds like you’re just making stuff up, or regurgitating what you’ve read others say or post online.
I’m talking about statements like “I think trapping is…” and “I actually believe that Wing Chun is…” and " I personally feel if there is something useful there…"
These are not very convincing arguments, so try to understand when we don’t take them very seriously.
[QUOTE=RWaggs;2568032]^^^Well put. How about this? If there’s a WC practitioner who is going to be in the Seattle area or lives in the Seattle area, I issue this opportunity…
[/QUOTE]
I bet $10 on you
I don’t do WC but I fight with a style that has a lot of in fighting. Trapping for me can happen in many distances, from kicking to striking distances. When referring to the thread I said “I think” because I"m not sure with WC, but it would be logical from my experience and watching WC and reading about WC to think it probably is most apparent when in close range, eg in striking distance and close to clinch distance
[QUOTE=Bahuyuddha;2568243]You think, or you know? If you think so, why do you think that? If you know, how do you know? Have you ever done this mysterious trapping technique? From your posts in this thread, it sounds like you’re just making stuff up, or regurgitating what you’ve read others say or post online.
I’m talking about statements like “I think trapping is…” and “I actually believe that Wing Chun is…” and " I personally feel if there is something useful there…"
These are not very convincing arguments, so try to understand when we don’t take them very seriously.[/QUOTE]
You know what I think? I think you are a fucking idiot.
Also there is nothing mystical about trapping it could be as simple as grabbing someones arm after they strike and kicking them in the ribs not letting them block down or in a close range situation where you side step and parry a punch trapping the closer arm from doing any harm eg a grab or getting so close a strike from that arm would be useless. The side step also uses his own body to block the strike from his opposite arm. The perfect example would be almost slighty standing behind him trapping the closer arm that can do damage. These are just examples of many things you can do but, that is the basic idea of trapping.
[QUOTE=Bahuyuddha;2568243]You think, or you know? If you think so, why do you think that? If you know, how do you know? Have you ever done this mysterious trapping technique? From your posts in this thread, it sounds like you’re just making stuff up, or regurgitating what you’ve read others say or post online.
I’m talking about statements like “I think trapping is…” and “I actually believe that Wing Chun is…” and " I personally feel if there is something useful there…"
These are not very convincing arguments, so try to understand when we don’t take them very seriously.[/QUOTE]
And I think you are not open minded. Your BJJ kickboxing must be the style that is the epitome of what humans with two arms and two legs can possibly do for martial strategies
[QUOTE=battlefields;2568278]You know what I think? I think you are a fucking idiot.[/QUOTE]