Why did China not develop any ground grappling techniques?
Maybe it has to do with their use of human manure?
Yeah damn too bad. I wish there was some sort of like jacketed wrestling that maybe a subculture like the I don’t know Mongolians for example had invented…
Huh? Half the locks I know can be found in kung-fu, just not in any realistic fashion.
It exists as small parts of styles that are most commonly displayed as a standing game. That’
s probably because it’s more ionteresting to watch the chop sockey stuff than two guys making human pretzels on the ground. Enough generations of the showmanship over “fighting” thing and you’ve got an art that has no ground game anymore.
Or maybe it isn’t so prevalent because it’s hard to grapple men who carry spears and swords.
Anybody else with more experience than me want to weigh in on this?
Someone already did in a sarcastic manner.
Oh and stop shitting up the CMA forum with your silliness…
I would not say that CMA did not have any ground grappling techniques. I would just say that there was nothing like the judo newaza and BJJ that continues to be developed today.
I think that any such techniques didn’t meet with the same favour, at least for the past 200 years. China did not have the same martial culture as Japan. In Japan the samurai were nobility. In China fighting and warfare were viewed as something to be avoided. Under the Confucian system a martial artist would be on the same social level as a prostitute. Unless you were in the military, the only reason you would want to know how to fight would be if you were a bandit or a bodyguard–neither were noble professions.
As the martial arts progressed into the late Qing dynasty, they came to be promoted somewhat as physical culture, or shrouded in the “bone setter” medical practice for respectability. Teachers of different styles naturally would compete for students. Challenge matches could make or break a teacher’s financial future. Challenge matches would typically take place on the lei tai platform in front of a crowd. The winner would have to demonstrate his fighting superiority to the masses.
If I can conjecture, one effect of the challenge match format was that something like a groundfighting submission victory would be seen as either fake (the crowd would not understand what happened, not unlike early UFC’s) or it would be considered undignified or cheating. Knocking out your opponent or forcing him off the platform would win the crowd (and the students would follow).
Another unfortunate effect was that teachers had to be careful what they taught to their students. The initiation process to learn any worthwhile technique would be long, as the teacher had to make sure the students were loyal. The last thing you would want to do is to teach your secret Buddha Palm technique to some guy who turns around to use it against you in a challenge match (thereby threatening your livelyhood). So students were kept busy doing calisthenics and forms until the teacher felt they were ready.
Note, I’m not saying this was the case with all teachers, but there was this incentive withhold information. This attitude of holding back techniques exists today and not just in CMA.
Oh damn, I did all that typing and it ended up in trollshido? I guess it got moved there while I was writing. Hopefully I can recycle it for a serious discussion.
That’s probably because, you responded to an email and not the actual thread.
[quote=meataxe;2238030]I would not say that CMA did not have any ground grappling techniques. I would just say that there was nothing like the judo newaza and BJJ that continues to be developed today.
I think that any such techniques didn’t meet with the same favour, at least for the past 200 years. China did not have the same martial culture as Japan. In Japan the samurai were nobility. In China fighting and warfare were viewed as something to be avoided. Under the Confucian system a martial artist would be on the same social level as a prostitute. Unless you were in the military, the only reason you would want to know how to fight would be if you were a bandit or a bodyguard–neither were noble professions.
As the martial arts progressed into the late Qing dynasty, they came to be promoted somewhat as physical culture, or shrouded in the “bone setter” medical practice for respectability. Teachers of different styles naturally would compete for students. Challenge matches could make or break a teacher’s financial future. Challenge matches would typically take place on the lei tai platform in front of a crowd. The winner would have to demonstrate his fighting superiority to the masses.
If I can conjecture, one effect of the challenge match format was that something like a groundfighting submission victory would be seen as either fake (the crowd would not understand what happened, not unlike early UFC’s) or it would be considered undignified or cheating. Knocking out your opponent or forcing him off the platform would win the crowd (and the students would follow).
Another unfortunate effect was that teachers had to be careful what they taught to their students. The initiation process to learn any worthwhile technique would be long, as the teacher had to make sure the students were loyal. The last thing you would want to do is to teach your secret Buddha Palm technique to some guy who turns around to use it against you in a challenge match (thereby threatening your livelyhood). So students were kept busy doing calisthenics and forms until the teacher felt they were ready.
Note, I’m not saying this was the case with all teachers, but there was this incentive withhold information. This attitude of holding back techniques exists today and not just in CMA.[/quote]Also, there is some truth mixed in with legends and myth in this post IMO.
Why am I getting an infraction for this?
Because we don’t like you.
Seriously though why is this thread here?:beatdead:
*Edit: Looked it up. Matt, good question but you need to have more content than this in the future. Next time post this in Newbietown.
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You posted a low content thread in a style forum. If you had put some thought into the opening post and typed more than a single sentence, it might have stayed.
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Your question has been asked many time before on this site. Repeat questions belong in the Your Martial Art Sucks, or YMAS, forum. Do a search before you post a “new” thread to make sure that topic hasn’t already been covered previously. For your information, Google will perform better than this sites search function.
Exactly what Jnp just stated plus, your obivous lack of reading forum stickies.
Also:
Do bare fists make the boxing tuck and cover ineffective - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Formerly in the Advanced Striking Forum
Is there such a thing as an inescapable submission or pin? - No BS MMA and Martial Arts
Formerly in the Advanced Grappling forum.
So, that is three threads, of a low content nature, in three different sub-forums. I decided to give you an infraction because, hopefully it would make you notice the problem.
Yep. Wasn’t intended to be a real scholarly approach.
The social status of the martial artist is solid AFAIK. I have it from a trusted source while I was researching Chinese bladed weapons.
The lei tai and grappling is mostly conjecture on my part.
The whole challenge match thing was something I picked up peripheral to another discussion earlier. Sounds good, but I don’t have any original sources.
I probably should have added that as a disclaimer, but hey, it was late.
What, “pull out your knife, stab motherfucker” isn’t a ground technique?