what do you guys think of wing chun

I have heard about this incident at a Leung Ting seminar also, it is supposed to have occured in NYC before the Colonge incident. However there are numerous versions of the story none of which can be verified.

Yeah, Leung Ting also makes the same claim that Cheung does, namely that he was closed door student of Ip Man and he learned the all the secrets from the man himself. Although LT is definately a scheisster in my book (Yeah, matzabowl I’ve actually met the guy ) I would say his approach is a bit more palatable than Cheung’s.

“You were bored … so you thought you’ld try some kung fu”

ksmythe, for somebody who “studied” at a Ip Ching school, you’re still a putz. Yeah, I name call, but I call them as I see them. Of course you proceed to show how clever you are and come up with “matzacrap”…very good.

As far as my knowledge in Wing Chun, I’ve been studying for over a year, but I know it’s far superier than anyother system I have studied, and I try to learn everything I can about it. But hey, proceed to Mr. Knowitall.

As far you meeting Leung Ting, I personaly don’t trust anybody who’s number 2 guy drives a car worth more than a 3 bedroom house in the nice part of town.

“But some apes they gotta go, so we kill the ones we don’t know” - ‘Ape shall never kill Ape’ by The Vandals

Matzah that’s all you can come up with? Ad hominen attacks? Pathetic… I can only image how pathetic your WC is. First of all, you made the claim that all I do is talk sht about people I don’t know. No I mostly talk sht about people I have met, seen or know. I thought I’d through the LT reference in before I talked sh*t about him to keep you happy.
Instead you went off on some irrational tangent about expensive cars. Where the fuk did that come from?

Your statement about not trusting someone simply because his number 2 man drives an expensive car ( which we all know is a reference to Keith Kernspecht) shows how simply irrational you are.

From your demeanor, ignorance and naitivity do I even have to ask if you are a WCKFC student?

“You were bored … so you thought you’ld try some kung fu”

Edited by - ksmythe on October 07 2002 19:33:58

I think Tsuguri has either given up on this post, or is sitting back in his chair laughing at you guys. How is WC ever going to be considered a viable art if all we ever do is sit back and bitch about it’s masters? I get it. Our art is so good that there is no one else who can contend with us, so we have to fight among ourselves. Is that the image we are trying to portray?

No it’s crap. WC is pure unadulterated crap. People like Little_Ideas and matzahbal can give their WC/WT/VT apologetics all day long and it isn’t going to change that.

“You were bored … so you thought you’ld try some kung fu”

Well if WC is crap for you, then don’t practice it, but you don’t have to belittle others if it is the right art for them. What art would you suggest? TKD?

Ive been training 3 years full time under Jim Fung, one of Tsui Shun Tins Students. And as far as im concerned the system is the most effective martial art out there. its simple, direct and practical. I don’t realy care what anyone else says and its a waste of time threatening people on the net or talking shit like a lot of you people do.
Whether you agree with me or not i simply don’t care.
So why not spend more time training in whatever art you find is legitimate and less time arguing over the fine print.

>Emin is scheduled to be in Chicago on November 1st.

Cool, I will try to go to that one.

>“On Single Combat” - book

I’ll look for it. If nothing else I will assume that its available on amazon.com


I was looking at the book Ip Chun and his student Michael Tse put out called, “Wing Chun Kung Fu, Traditional Chinese Kung Fu For Self-Defense and Health”

It has a history section that gives accounts of fights that Ip Man and other historical WC people took part in, both challenges and self-defense. The odd thing is that no fights are talked about in Ip Chun’s section. Are there any stories about him out there? Has he been in any interesting fights? I am just curious.

>> Perhaps it was because I had an inherent skill for the science and never deviated from natural principles. - Miyamoto Musashi 1643

as far as my own research goes, im found that most of the first generation student of yip man. Wong shun long, Tsui shun Tin, Lok yu, Lueng Seung. and the second generation students Ip chun, Duncan wong, Jim fung, Bruce lee, william cheung, leung Tin. All fought challenege matches. As far as i can tell both Tsui shun tin, and wong shun long never lost. And the rest of them won more than they lost. Interesting fact was that when they won the fight the actually confrontation never lasted long than 30 secs. They were the famous roof top challenge fights in hong kong. Again this is just what ive heard and researched myself from some of the hong kong students.

Is it just me or do the names of those Kung Fu fighters seem ridiculous somehow? And those rooftop fights were about %110 bullshit. I heard William Cheung describe one in an old issue of Inside Kung Fu and it sounded like he was describing a scene from Kung Fu Theatre. It was basically a bunch of young Chinese crackpots who climb up on rooftops like chimpanzees and sparred for about 20 minutes after their Kung Fu class. Can you see these guys REALLY trying to make the crap they were taught WORK on each other? It would be a scene out of Kung Pow. If we had videotape footage of that shit we coulod sell it for comedy and sit back on easy street.

Hey, just my 2 cents.

"Do not become entranced by impractical or useless movements. Do not be categorized as one who “Learns all there is to know about less and less until he ends up learning everything there is to know about nothing.” -Ed Parker

9,

I have that book, its amusing.

I’m not aware of any challenge matches for Ip Chun.

Personally, I think his WC is ‘horrible’. The only reason Ip Chun and Ip Ching have any students is who their father was. . .

Chark,

Why do you call William Cheung and Ip Chun second generation? Just curious, I could give a fuck less about ‘lineage’ or ‘generation’. You can either fight or you can’t.

One of the things that always pissed me off about William Cheung was his claim that Emin could never challenge him because Emin isn’t the same generation. Fucking stupid.

I’ve heard some good things about Tsui Shun Tin. I’ve heard Jim Fung is very good but charges money out the ying yang. I heard $400 for an hour private lesson.

Hmmm… I thought:
A - the original question was “what do you think of wing chun”
B - that this was a more mature forum

All this speaking of Ip Chung / Tzung / Will Cheung / Ting / Eminem reminds me of a bunch of 15 years old geeks girlfigthing on the internet: JUST SPEAK ABOUT TECHNICAL ASPECT OF THE ART FOR GOD’S SAKE!!!

I don’t think the man who initiated this thread wanted to hear all this CRAP about stupid people arguing “I am better then you” “My master was more friend than yours of Yip Man (the poor man is shaking in his grave at this point)” “my kung fu is better than yours” etc.

t_tsuguri, I have previous consistent other MA experience, a few ring experience and a really few street experience, I have a good opinion of the art (I have been practicing for 1 year and a half now) and I will be happy to answer specific TECHNICAL questions about it (if you are still there of course…)

ksmythe. bncwd does have a good point. This is a discussion bored.

Why, in your humble opinion. Is Wing Chun “crap”?

“But some apes they gotta go, so we kill the ones we don’t know” - ‘Ape shall never kill Ape’ by The Vandals

Edited by - matzahbal on October 08 2002 11:59:52

This isn’t McRoundTable or McPoliticallyCorrect!

The Wing Chun only boards are worse than this!

The real problem with most WC/WT/VT is people spend their time slagging each other off and not enough time working on their skills.

It is amazing how opinions of a style are formed by just watching one or two people. Wing Chun is a thinking mans art. Wing Chun is based on sound concepts. It does not matter if William Cheung, Yip Chun etc can fight or not. They have the techical knowledge of the art. If they teach you all there is to know about the concepts and how the movements, stance and biomechanics work, then it is up to the specific practitioner to apply them. Neither your master or style will fight for you.

Here are a few quotes from Wong Shun Leung from David Petersons excellent book Beyond The Pointing Finger (something most conclusion jumpers on the list would do well to read regardless of their style):

“Just as you cannot expect to win a chess game without sacrificing a few pieces, so you cannot expect to win a fight without being hit or kicked yourself.”

“Teachers and students are deluding themselves if they believe martial arts bestow any superhuman qualities”

“Someone who is looking at Wing Chun and who hasn’t trained the full system, or who hasn’t spent enough time with a teacher, probably won’t know enough footwork. They won’t understand the mobility involved in Wing Chun…the angles of attack, the methods of advance and retreat. They won’t understand the full use of kicks in all situations. As a result, they tend to add in things that they think are better, to compensate for their lack of knowledge.”

“Many Wing Chun guys don’t know how to fight. In Chi Sau you will practise those techniques which you have learned from the forms. We are training our reflex actions for certain situations created by our opponents. Some people have the wrong idea that chi sau is to teach you to tie up your opponent or stick endlessly to each others arms. It is not. It is to train the reflex ability to continue your attacks if they have been deflected.”

This next one is a very important quote I think, given how some of this discussion has gone along.

“When the Wing Chun practitioner fights and is defeated, the idea is not to think that the other man is better than himself. Instead he needs to ask himself what were the mistakes he made which allowed the opponents attack to succeed. This is the kind of positive thinking which any fighter must possess”

“It is never a case of correcting one’s system, but improving one’s self. Say you play chess with a very good chess player. Even if he wins, he will have had to sacrifice some pieces along the way, but he knows those sacrifices were neccesary to ensure the victory. Some people, when they get hit, feel that they have been hurt and that their particular gung fu system is no good. In Wing Chun, if this happens, we don’t think in these terms. Instead, we’ll ask ourselves “What have I done wrong?” or “What is it that I can’t do?” Our question isn’t ever “How does Wing Chun work?” but, “How can I manke Wing Chun work for me?” In other words don’t be bound by Wing Chun, or any other system for that matter, make it work for you. Be the MASTER, not the SLAVE”

To the guy that dismissed Wong because he lost a fight once, these quotes should assure you that he wouldn’t care what anybody called him or thought. As you can see his philosophy would have been to analyse where he went wrong and move on. He would have treated it as a learning exercise.

Peedee, just as there are many rubbish people in your sphere of fighting, there are also many rubbish people in any style of fighting. Normally those who promote themselves the most are some of the worst. I’m sure some of the lesser known guys such as Ken Chung, Tom Wong, Alan Lamb, or mainland Chinese teachers such as Sum Nung would show you the harder side of Wing Chun you seem to have missed. Who knows, you might even find something, should you take the time to learn thoroughly, that you would like to incorporate into your own fighting.

Regarding Wing Chun guys that have entered NHB events, I too have seen how badly they have been defeated. However I can also say catagorically that I didn’t see any of them use any Wing Chun ‘techniques’, footwork, or anything else connected with the style for that matter! I suppose it is a bit like a BJJ going into the ring and then only using boxing techniques and then having BJJ criticised for being rubbish.

Regarding the Wing Chun punch looking slappy; there are many people in Wing Chun who look like they are doing a Wing Chun punch, but are in fact not doing anything of the sort. The power of a Wing Chun punch is, as 9 chambers correctly pointed out, generated from the ground (as he was also correct about it’s limitations on the floor). The arm is relaxed during the punch (and does not have to be tensed at the end as popular theory goes) with the arm being powered by the elbow. The full weight and power of the body powers the punch. It is not powered from the waist, the elbow, or any other individual component for that matter. The idea is to link the entire body as one unit.

Regarding any style turning to a brawl; In Wing Chun, if this is the case, then the practitioner has not internalised the system. If it goes awry at very close range that I would suggest that there is something very, very wrong with the way that person is training since that is the range they should be most comfortable with!

As an extra side not, trapping in Wing Chun is but only a fraction of the style. Wing Chun is about adaption. It contains locks, breaks, kicks (many), elbows, takedowns, and in the case of many of the mainland variations (and indeed theone Yip Man originally taught on the mainland) low level punches/attacks.

That’s my $20 worth! Now, as one of the other posters suggested, can we talk on a more technical level?

Re: what do you guys think of wing chun

I think it’s a great art with alot of history, however it became americanized and commercialized and its no longer what it was.

Re: what do you guys think of wing chun

sort of the case for most tmas

Re: what do you guys think of wing chun

Nice necro moron.

Didn’t you notice that this thread was over 6 years old. No one gives a shit about what you think of _ing __un.

Read more and post less.

Re: what do you guys think of wing chun

Hahahahahahaha No… The biggest orgs and famous commercializing teachers are outside of the US.

Re: what do you guys think of wing chun

I appreciate the necro for this quote alone. Describes my entire game really.