Not probably. ISN’T (see above).
- Matt
You all know way too much about asian underwear.
I was sure to include one with pictures.
Horny ass chinkys
Well, I don’t know if the origin of the white belt changing to black through wear is true, but in Kyokushinkai, we are taught to always keep your Gi clean, but NEVER wash your belt, using the belt as a symbol of the effort and hours you have put into training. IF the myth of how white/black belts started is true, it’s probably because of something similar, rather than some tradition among regular people to never wash their clothes.
I think your instructor just likes sweaty young boys.
Pretty much every MA school that uses a belt system doesnt want students washing their belts. This is because it symbolizes hard work like you have said, as well as the dye in the belts will go crazy all over anything else in the wash.
I think the dirty belt myth is a synmbolic story that teaches students a good thing wether or not it is true. I bet it is true with some people in the past, I mean how else could such a huge legend be created unless someone somewhere did it. Wether or not it was an ancient practice or a modern practice doesnt matter. The fact is its a good thing for students to understand hard work.
But I SWEAR I read somewhere that early stryles of longer underwear in Japanw ere used. Except the sleeves were very very short and the pant legs were very very short and it was like some sort of under clothes they wore and when training they wore it as a work out uniform. Eventually it got modified over time into what it is today.
ANd I know a lot of japanese didnt wear long pants all the time. But some wore the hakama.
But anyway I was more curious as how the TKD dobak came into use. I know earlier korean arts used regular gis before, but then they made black trim on the collars but they were still robe style. Tang soo do and other arts still use the robe style. Then the modern TKD group made V neck collars I think to be anti Japanese and stand out and be different in their art.
Also about Kung Fu: A lot dont wore any special uniform, but some do right? Dont some schools have dress codes like the black pants and white shirt with a sash?
And if kung fu doesnt use a uniform then why at a tournament do they have to put one on? Why not just come in sweats?
Also no one really answered the muy thai shorts question. Even on asian men those shorts are sooo short. Most boxers put on spandex pants or something under then.
Also what about western boxing clothes? ANd what about wrestling singlets? I mean why are they sooo tight?
Look I hate to be that guy BUT… DOES ANYONE HERE READ!!! There is documented evidence that this all began with Kano. Not speculation. Not hearsea. Friggin’ documented evidence! The entire belt’s changing color myth is a myth. The Kano introduced belts colors as a rank differentiator. They spread to Korea with the Japanese occupation. More colors were added by westerners and then reintroduced into Asia (yes people discourse on the martial arts does flow both ways).
Beyond that, the Japanese aristocrats (where all Japanese martial arts derive from) were pretty hygenic people (hence why no shoes are worn in houses). With the exception of certain nutters (like Musashi) they didn’t tolerate uncleanliness. Read Funokoshi’s bio for lots of grooming nutiness.
One last time -> belt colors deriving from blood sweat and tears is pure BS! It’s a great symbolic story and at best can be shared as such. But that wasn’t the reason for the development of the belt colors. Plain, simple and historical.
Because chinese martial arts are primarily practiced for cultural preservation and as such they perform in cultural/traditional dress! Beyond that, the average Mao jacket that most of us wear is indicative of some styles of turn of the century dress. Sashes were also a common dress accoutriment. Sash as a designation of ranking is relatively new to the CMA and a western addition.
As for also why the dress in tourny, in part it’s a modern, western cultural extension of the arts. Japanese artists wear anacronistic dress in their tourneys and that cues CMA folks to do the same. Subtle (or not so subtle) cultural performance pressure for the sake of symbolic legitimization. You’re not doing real martial arts unless you look like a martial artist (or at least the expected look of one).
Because people used to wrestle naked. Do your history. Any clothing can provide an opponent with an ability to further manipulate the body (see all the Gi based throws in Judo). So the more sheer the singlet, the less chance of using the singlet against your opponent, and in theory, the more true to the history of the art.
- Matt
Believe it or not here in Japan they have the “don’t wash your belt” thing going in Kyokushin. I got politely told to stop washing my belt. Something about it holds the spirit of my training. Well, for me, it holds about 10 gallons of stinky sweat that I’d rather not have around my waist thanks.
But yeah - no way in a country as obsessed with cleanliness and odor as Japan is the belt slowely goes from white to black would have worked - someone would have cut your head off for being so offensively stinky.
Yes I agree that the belt colors - From yellow to green - had originated with Kano’s creation of Judo.However I have read the use of Brown Belt and Black belts being used by Okinawans.But one thing that must be made clear is that in the late 1800’s white gi’s were not the official color for gi’s.
If anyone here had walked into Karate schools then in that period.You would have seen different color schemes for diffirent schools.Not just white.
Heck! I don’t think instructors in Okinawa tried really hard to instille a basic uniform color.Or is thee someone out there who know’s more then me.
Because I think it was mainly Funakoshi who influenced it the use of white.
A hakama was used to conceal the movement of the feet, not to prevent someone from attacking your legs. Wearing something so large and baggy just wouldn’t have been practical.
Besides, have you ever used a katana? I just recently went to a sword party, where we cut through whole jugs of Tide detergent, even the top where the plastic is dense and thick. I seriously doubt the protection of cloth, when even heavy plastic doesn’t survive. Even if the cloth protected the legs from being cut, the impact of the blade would have broke their shins.
Who said hakama functioned as armor?
I don’t think I’d even cut a plastic jug with my sword.
fwiw: i’ve always been told that a belt can be cleaned if it’s caked in mud or gore or pie filling or whathaveyou, but it must never be washed. “it contains kime, which would be washed away!” whatever. it gets rinsed out well enough when we train in the rain or a stream.
oh, and i have to say - i’m more used to seeing tkd people in gis than omgnotgis.
People were saying that hakama were used to “protect the legs” when on horseback and somebody read that as “armor.” Just a simple misunderstanding.
(This is only a guess.)
Wow take a chill pill dude! I never said the blood and sweat changes the belt. I said its a myth like you just did, but I think its a good myth to tell to remind students to work hard. Geez man!!
But thanks for answering my other questions.
Just for the sake of the argument.I think a white belt can get very green if you train constantly on grass.I guess the same can be said about training on dirt also.
However, I would say the stains could not be deep enough into the belt for the green and brown colors to stay.
Sorry Andrew… its just watch people keep talking about the myth seems so wrong considering Bullshido’s mission.
- Matt
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hakama
There are two types of hakama, divided and undivided. The divided type, called umanori (馬乗り, horse-riding hakama) are divided like trousers, but nearer the bottom of the garment. This type of hakama are often called “divided skirts”. Both types are identical in outside appearance.
Mega Jesus-San, what kind of sword do you have? I use a Kris Cutlery Korean blade.
I + repped Matt for saving me the trouble on the belt thing. It’s annoying as hell.
On Chinese uniforms:
Colored sashed are a cool marketing gimick that the Chinese are unaware of in China. Traditional Chinese schools run by Chinese traditionally use a black cotten sash to keep the pants up. The pants are HUGE and REALLY comfortable to train in. They fold up kind of like those indonesian things …uh…sarongs, but if you train hard then just folding up the material at the waist isn’t enough so your wrap it tight with a sash. The sash also kind of funtions like a weight belt. It helps protect your waist/low back from injury.
The Bruce Lee style “uniform” that is so popular among many WC schools and in certain other southern styles comes from what he wore in that movie where he fought Chuck Norris in the Colleseum of Rome. That is your basic Chinese peasant farmer outfit. I’m pretty sure it has no relation to martial arts other than the fact that Bruce wore it in some of his movies where he was playing…a peasant.
When I did Hung Gar we wore the traditional pants, comfy as hell and VERY wide in the crotch but then just wore a black t-shirt with it. I was given a black sash on my first day. Colored sashes are silly.
In China my teacher just tells me to where loose pants and a long sleeved shirt. He thinks Baji looks better with the button up shirt and he likes the sound the sleeves make. Besides, hypothetically that’s what youd likely be wearing in a fight, street clothes. We train outdoors and wear regular sneakers.
The fancy silk or other uniforms are for forms performances only. If your doing a PERFORMANCE then not dressing up kind of show that you don’t give a shit about the performance. It’s disrespectfull. TRAINING in one of those getups is just silly. Performance =/= training.
Here is a interesting article that I had found;
http://www.spiritualminds.com/articles.asp?articleid=2021