I know we usually talk about styles in this section, but I had a question for the Oki/Jap practitioners about the kata Wansu. From what I understand, the kata translates to something like Dragon boy, strong arm, dumping form. Now I see where they get the strong arm (one section you are lifting the person up) and I see the dumping form (you throw the person down in the other section), but where does “dragon boy” come into play? The only “animal” technique used in the entire form, at least how we practice it in Shorei-ryu, is a tiger technique. So does anyone have any ideal on this?
OK, the Hanja I have for this form are: 腕秀 and 汪楫. It is also known by 燕飛.
腕秀/완수/Wansoo means Elegant Wrist.
The second name; 汪楫/왕즙/Wangjeub means Vast Paddle.
The third is the commonly held “Shotokan” name, Enpi. 燕飛/연비/Yunbi, means Darting Swallow.
I couldn’t find any Hanja indicating Strong Arm or Dragon Boy as a name. If you have alternate Hanja for the name, I would be glad to take a look at them.
As for technical questions involving this form, I can’t answer those I have not learned this form yet. I would be interested in seeing the Shorei-Ryu version of the form, as our system evolved out of the Shito-ryu, Shotokan, and Wado-ryu schools.
I’ll ask some others who may know.
Good to see you posting again Miguksaram.
It’s named after the Chinese envoy, Wan Ji (Wanshu in Okinawan) who taught it on the island in the late 1600’s.
It’s called “Empi” in Shotokan, which I believe means “Swallows Flight” and is probably a reference to the up and down movement representing a swallow in flight.
I believe the “Dragon Boy” name comes from one of the movements (a downward block or strike) that is thought to look like a Dragon’s tail.
Yamabushi, I had not heard of Wanji, but that is entirely possible. Do you have the Hanja/Kanji for his name?
Unforunately not. I am not a Japanese speaker so I have to go with secondary sources.
I should point out that the “Wansu = Wan Ji” theory is the most commonly reported. There is some controversy as (a) the Japanese/Okinawan reading of Wan Ji is apparently “Ou Shou” and (b) he is only recorded as being in Okinawa for 6 months in 1683.
I’ve seen it suggested that Wansu might be a corruption of “Wang Shifu” or derived from the names of other Chinese boxers, particularly Wu Xianhui (Go Kenki), a whooping crane stylist, and Tang Daiji (To Daiki), a tiger stylist.
I suspect that, as with a lot of MA history, you get to pay your money and take your pick.
We do have a seperate form called empi-sho which could be what you are talking about here. There is a move in that form where there is one strike with an oniken (dragon punch).
Thanks. I am trying to get some inspiration to do some work on our website for the school and organization so while I am killing brain cells thinking, I thought I would try to do some posting here as well.
Empi-sho? Is there an Empi-dai? Or is Empi-dai Wanshu?
Whatever it takes to get you back. I don’t have your kind of cred yet to rep the KMA.
Miguksaram,
from what I’ve been able to research there appear to be multiple katas out there that go by the name Wansu or Wanshu. Some are more similar to each other than others but the common links seem to be an (alleged) origin with Wang Ji, and that each kata contains some sort of “hidden” punch and a throwing technique.
Given the similarity in names and the known link between Shotokan’s Empi and Wansu it’s possible that your style has absorbed two versions of the kata from different sources.
Do you have video of the two katas so that we can see the similarities/differences?
The wansu and the empi-sho are two different forms. Directional movement and techniques used in them are very different. As for examples of them, I don’t have any video, but that does give me a great excuse for using my new digital camcorder. 
I’ll see if I can get something together over the weekend. Until then I will just keep searching.
So I check out this link here, Kata Forms of Karate. I stroll down a bit and find this:
So you two were pretty much dead on. Wansu=Empi, and the “Dragon Boy” reference came from GM Shimabuku (founder of Isshin-ryu). I am also corrected on my interpretation of the why it is called the “Strong Arm Form”. So now I have to figure out why we have a form called Empi-sho “First Elbow Form” (at least I think that is what it’s called). Love these little adventures.
Just another note to add. In Isshinryu, our Wansu does also contain what some call the hidden punch or “master’s punch” and also contains the dump/throw technique. Much of the techniques in the kata involved changing distances, as a previous post noted.
The nickname of Dragon Boy being applied to the kata may be a corruption of history. Master Shimabuku chose the name Tatsuo. Tatsuo means “Dragon Boy”. He also had the nickname of Sunsu, which I believe translates to “Strong Man”. Sunsu is also one of the 8 empty-hand Isshinryu kata.