I am a member of a website (www.bullshido.net) that acts as a consumer advocacy group that monitors fraud in the martial arts. We’ve recently had someone approach us asking our opinion on your ranking, according to this person you seem to be very young to have attained such a high rank. I am writing to offer you the opportunity to come on to the website and clear any confusion that this person may have regarding your ranking. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=113124
As a martial art business owner, I am sure you agree with us that there is a need to monitor people who may not have the experience they claim in martial arts as those people impact the legitimate martial artist business owners bottom line. Bullshido is not out to get anyone, instead it aims to ensure that legitimate martial artists are kept in business by exposing fraudulent claims.
Provided you are forthright and are able to provide evidence of your attained rank, you will find your stay at Bullshido welcoming and enlightening. There are many seasoned practitioners of the martial arts and we welcome new legitimate martial artists of any skill level!
I believe it would be appreciated by many MMA practitioners and trainers if you removed the reference to an “MMA workout” on your home page as it sends a message that you provide a particular sort of training. Of course, if you do provide that type of training and can back it up with evidence of trainer rank, why not make it more of a prominent feature of your website?
We look forward to seeing your response on the website.
I guess it all depends on what you mean be ‘legit.’ Its a little young for me, and obviously his ranks didn’t reset after ‘kids class’ age groups like some do, but that doesn’t mean the guy can’t teach you what you want to learn.
His website is a little sparse of detail, so you might want to research ongoing affiliation with an international or national organization, if thats important to you. A supervising body has the potential to bring with it quality control, oversight, and an ability to seek out other instructors in other dojo to give you fresh experiences (though politics often come with this as well). I think this may play into your perception of legitimacy, as well. It seems you mean to compare legitimacy to rank claims, which suggest the type of oversight provided by credible governing bodies in the style. Its hard to tell if this guy is independent or not, based on the lack of information on his website. There are positives and negatives of being independent, which I won’t get into unless pertinent, but I simply mean to point out that ‘rank legitimacy’ takes on a whole new deal with independent dojo.
Based on the video, the guy seems amicable enough, with a decent mindset, and he does look young. I can’t really comment on the few seconds of techniques shown…I’ve never been taught to kick higher than the solar plexus or floating ribs and wouldn’t feel comfortable making comment on styles doing that.
I know you asked for personal opinions, but mine won’t really help you in this case. I am just supplying some observations I’ve made over the years and am applying them to your question. If you really want my personal opinion you can PM me, though I will say I am a traditionalist at heart and only have any credible knowledge of Japanese martial arts.
[QUOTE=masterJ;2637961][B]I know this person that just recently opened a school 6 months ago and is 25 years old and is claiming he is a 4th degree black belt with only 16yrs of experience? [/QUOTE]
If his ranking is in Taekwondo then it would not be a problem. If you look at the timeline for TIR it would be legit. He started at age 9. If it was a typical TKD school he would have had a poom belt by age 11. By the age of 13 he would have been 2nd poom and by age 16 he could have applied for an adult rank of 2nd…possibly 3rd dan. Let’s say for sake of argument that he stuck with 2nd dan. By the age of 19 he would have been eligible for 3rd dan and by the age of 23 or 24 he would have been eligible for 4th dan. So it is not that far fetched.
My question to you is why do you care? Is he a business competitor of yours or are you thinking of learning under him?
[QUOTE=Miguksaram;2638038]If his ranking is in Taekwondo then it would not be a problem. If you look at the timeline for TIR it would be legit. He started at age 9. If it was a typical TKD school he would have had a poom belt by age 11. By the age of 13 he would have been 2nd poom and by age 16 he could have applied for an adult rank of 2nd…possibly 3rd dan. Let’s say for sake of argument that he stuck with 2nd dan. By the age of 19 he would have been eligible for 3rd dan and by the age of 23 or 24 he would have been eligible for 4th dan. So it is not that far fetched.
My question to you is why do you care? Is he a business competitor of yours or are you thinking of learning under him?[/QUOTE]What he said.
it seems right to me, I started when i was 9 and, i tested for my 4th Dan and Sa Bom when I was 26. I was delayed by a year and a half due to injuries.
All sorts of people have all sorts of “legitimate rank” . It means very little. The only thing that matters is can they teach you what you want to learn, how you want to learn it for a reasonable price. Ad to the preceding; is what they are teaching / what you would be learning worth a spit vis a vis meeting your expectations, be it worthwhile self defense, competition, fitness, holistic martial art approach, or whatever. Do you have the ability to judge what it’s worth? Is he a member of some organizatiuon with some standrds that have meaning . (This is not to say he must be a member of a large org for his curriculum to be worthwhile but there is always a “portability” factor to consider. )
Is there 16 years of experience, or the same experience for 16 years?
[QUOTE=Earl Weiss;2638624]All sorts of people have all sorts of “legitimate rank” . It means very little. The only thing that matters is can they teach you what you want to learn, how you want to learn it for a reasonable price. Ad to the preceding; is what they are teaching / what you would be learning worth a spit vis a vis meeting your expectations, be it worthwhile self defense, competition, fitness, holistic martial art approach, or whatever. Do you have the ability to judge what it’s worth? Is he a member of some organizatiuon with some standrds that have meaning . (This is not to say he must be a member of a large org for his curriculum to be worthwhile but there is always a “portability” factor to consider. )
Is there 16 years of experience, or the same experience for 16 years?[/QUOTE]
I agree…My comment was not meant to imply that the person can teach…only that he could be a legitimate 4th dan. I know many high ranking dans who I wouldn’t bother learning how to tie my shoe from, and I know many 1st dans who have learned a lot from.
Yes, that’s not the issue if he is a legit teacher. That is another can of worms… The OP makes it sound like he is too young to be a 4th Dan. In TKD that isn’t the case as laid out, if it is continuous training he can be a 4th Dan and in America, if you can open a school go ahead.
Though this is slightly off topic, it does relate to teacher quality.
I would like to emphasize a comment It Is a Fake just made; “continuous training.” This concept can’t be overemphasized enough.
We speak about these bullshido people inflating their skill and experience all the time. Perhaps the gateway to that is such claims as “been doing Muay Thai for 20 years” when, in fact, that person started his first MT class 20 years ago and has trained sporadically throughout that time period. I find it important for a quality teacher to have continuous and consistent training while also seeking out instruction from betters, constantly seeking to better themselves, and are not afraid to train with other groups.
This comes down to a question of quality of that teacher’s experience. Would you rather train with someone who is 30; started training when he was 11, and has more or less attended classed at the same school approximately twice a week with the occasional couple of years off. Maybe this person has never really trained with practitioners of other arts or styles, opened a school at 2nd degree black belt when he was like 20 or so. So realistically only had two plus years of biweekly training as an adult before opening his own dojo. After opening his own dojo, he’s spent the last ten years just teaching classes there and not really mixing it up, traveling, etc. I throw this hypothetical guy out there because I see it a lot. OR would you rather train with a person who’s only trained for six years, has trained 4-5 days a week, was a live-in apprentice/student in some formal program, attends mixed seminars, always seeks out guidance from solid seniors, and just really puts in an effort to better himself as a martial artist. This, of course, leads into a different discussion about how far one is willing to travel for a particular teacher…but, again, thats a different discussion all together.
Just something that popped in my head when reading Its a Fake’s comment.
Yet, that is the problem with these threads. Why assume the negative if none exists? That is my problem with drive-by posters and some of the assholes on this website. The guy opened a school and we have no proof that he sucks, didn’t train enough, or has fake credentials.
It shouldn’t be in this forum.
You know what?
It isn’t anymore.
Original Title:
25yr old guy that is a 4th degree with 16yrs. exp. ??? how legit is this
[QUOTE=money;2638861]I’d also like to suggest that we don’t contact the person in question till it’s been determined that there is a legitimate issue to investigate.[/QUOTE]I disagree. I think it shows people that we don’t immediately jump down people throats for every little accusation out there. It’d be nice to have a few more legitimate TKD folk on the board anyway and the guy seemed genuinely skilled for a TKD guy.
I’m a bit annoyed at this thread because I had assholes questioning my rank when I was 25. I started at 9 too. And when I say assholes, each one of these instructors started a fight with me, at tournaments.
I will do my best to visit the Korean forums a bit more. As Omega knows I have been involved, with KMA for a couple of years and have a little bit of familiarity with KKW TKD and its ranking system.
The age of the guy is not an issue for me. If he knows his shit then more power to him.
[QUOTE=Omega Supreme;2638915]I disagree. I think it shows people that we don’t immediately jump down people throats for every little accusation out there. It’d be nice to have a few more legitimate TKD folk on the board anyway and the guy seemed genuinely skilled for a TKD guy.[/quote]Well I guess we will disgaree because I see it the opposite way. When we fire something off, no matter how nice, the name has a negative connotation. You see the thread and it goes of on a tangent about “what ifs.”
I’m a bit annoyed at this thread because I had assholes questioning my rank when I was 25. I started at 9 too. And when I say assholes, each one of these instructors started a fight with me, at tournaments.
Well we do agree about this BS.
[QUOTE=It is Fake;2638924]Well I guess we will disgaree because I see it the opposite way. When we fire something off, no matter how nice, the name has a negative connotation. You see the thread and it goes of on a tangent about “what ifs.”
Well we do agree about this BS.[/QUOTE]Such is the nature of this site and the internet. I don’t disagree with you I just have a bit thicker skin.
Well I guess my point was that basing an instructor’s quality on years training and age can be misleading. A look at an instructor’s quality of experience is also warranted. I have personal experience with this in two different martial arts in my own training; the one I’ve trained much less in I have much more quality of instruction. To tie this into the OP, a person can potentially be very young, but very talented…depending on the quality of his experience.
[QUOTE=battlefields;2637965]Sent this to the website.[/QUOTE]
I really hope the guy comes now and sees his thread is titled, “Waaaaahhhh he isn’t old like meeeeee!”
I just want to make it clear that I didn’t start this thread, someone else did in a serious forum so instead of my standard “break a douche down” response that would’ve happened were we in YMAS, I thought I would give the person he was accusing of being too young for his rank the opportunity to clear things up. I did not think that a 4th dan in TKD was as implausible as the OP had suggested, however, upon viewing the website in question I noticed a couple of inconsistencies, including the “MMA training”. I sent the email as nicely as I could, with a suggestion regarding his advertising practises.
For some reason the mods moved my post as the original post, I was not the OP, my post was in response to another. Just to clarify.
