Trainiing with "Aliveness" - Matt Thorton aka The Idiot

Reviews, Videos, and Everything Else Trollshido
1

Ok, I just have to say, that this whole Training with “aliveness” is not only corny and retarded - but Matt Thorton is an Idiot. I just watched his “sales pitch” on “Aliveness” and well… he is just stupid.

He compared drilling (what he calls dead training) with playing chess against no opponent. Chess is a MIND game… therefore muscle memory isn’t a consideration. If I stand infont of someone and punch 10,000 times in the same manner - I will develop muscle memory that will make me a Better fighter. I am ALL for FC training! I advocate it 150% however it seems all he does is give some students some gloves they pay 70 bucks for (you can get them at dicks for 35), a gi they pay 120 bucks for and tells them to wrestle on the floor.

Tell me HOW are you going to do an armbar if someone doesn’t actually SHOW you how to do it first? How are you going to understand the physics and concepts behind said technique without being SHOWN? If the “opponent” is always “resisting” there is NO way you can properly learn these things. You are better off going into your back yard with the neighbor.

If Matt T. is your mommas, sisters, brothers, cousins, nephew don’t be offended. It isn’t your fault he is an idiot.

2

Wow, you got all that from one video clip. Impressive!

3

You are absolutely correct.

By which I mean, you are absolutely incorrect. Thornton never said he was against drilling, he just was against the idea of using pure, mindless repition when the same muscle memory can be developed in tandem with other aspects of training. If you just stand still and throw 10,000 jabs, what’s the point? You could just as easily throw 10,000 jabs while bobbing, weaving, practicing your footwork, and so on.

4

If you don’t know how to PROPERLY throw the jab you are just as unskilled as when you started.

and YES it was all in ONE clip. He repeatedly said that Drilling was useless - TOTALLY useless and that unless you are going against a resisting opponent ALL THE TIME you aren’t training realistically. I personally prefer to know how I CAN beat my opponent before I TRY.

Not to mention the price for a sweatshirt with his gym’s name on it is 60 DOLLARS… 60 for a Jerzees sweatshirt (the cheapest brand on the market!)! He has basically stroked all these BJJ, wrestling and boxing guys into thinking that their way of “training” is the “alive” way… This being the current “fad” and the hot markent - now all these people have bought into this idiocy and are paying 60 bucks for the same sweatshirt you can get at Wal-Mart for 12 bucks.

5

You and Djimbe seem to be under the impression that because you train with aliveness (or at least say you do:p) that it is a non-issue.

That is completely wrong! There are plenty of schools, many in your own CMA tradition, that don’t train with aliveness. That only do static drills and never spar with full contact/resistance and because of that have techniques that wouldn’t stop a crappy folkstyle wrestler like myself. Thornton is talking to those people and there students, and man, he needs to be heard!

Regards,
Matt

6

therefore muscle memory isn’t a consideration.

Technically the muscles don’t ehave the capacity to ‘member’ anything. So the term is very misleading. Just splitting hairs.:smiley:

7

Finally, I can no longer ignore Tigerfly. Wish I had more time to respond. Matt Thornton is actually a pretty good philospher and great martial artist.

You got the chess analogy wrong. Openinings in chess are like leading combinations in boxing. The one-two usually works. But you cannot continually drill the same opening over and over and think you play chess. You must learn the opening and then actually play others in chess while using and attacking with and defending the opening. A great chess player continually practices openings at first and revisits them from time to time. There is also a lot of studying historical games and actual playing. Retract your chess comment…you got it wrong.

Matt’s opinion is that you must drill to learn the basics but the best way to improve and evolve is by working against FROS.

I don’t get the price gouging stuff you are quoting but the Straight Blast Gym philosophy is very correct.

And yes, Boxers and Wrestlers do get the “ALIVE” philosophy. It is part of being a boxer and/or wrestler and their effectiveness in actual combat has been proven again and again.

Its amazing how you don’t like to be insulted at Bullshido but you actually start a thread insulting Matt becuase you don’t agree with his philosophy. Please separate the two (man and philosophy) in the future–you excpect the same here, correct?

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Matt’s opinion is that you must drill to learn the basics but the best way to improve and evolve is by working against FROS.

nope, he NEVER ONCE said anything about “drilling” in the positive. As a matter of fact he never said anything about actually TEACHING anything at all. If you are thrown into a fight you are going to figure out ways to fight and save your life if you are in danger. THAT is his method of teaching from what he says. He isn’t giving isntruction on the best way to do this or that… he is saying “go get beat up and you will learn to fight back”. Thanks but I got past the fight or flight reflex a long time ago.

I don’t get the price gouging stuff you are quoting but the Straight Blast Gym philosophy is very correct.

It is typical of a MARKETER… someone who is out to sell the “best idea” once people buy in they start their real plan of action - selling sweatshirts for 60 freaking bucks. He is a salesman - a used car salesman at that.

And yes, Boxers and Wrestlers do get the “ALIVE” philosophy. It is part of being a boxer and/or wrestler and their effectiveness in actual combat has been proven again and again.

NO! their effectiveness in the RING has been proven time and time again… NOT FREAKING COMBAT! have you lost your mind? Tell me about all the Ninjas that are jumping boxers and wrestlers as the walk the back alleys of the mean streets of life… is THAT the combat you are speaking of?

Its amazing how you don’t like to be insulted at Bullshido but you actually start a thread insulting Matt becuase you don’t agree with his philosophy. Please separate the two (man and philosophy) in the future–you excpect the same here, correct?

I never once said I don’t like to be “insulted” I haven’t a clue what you are talking about. Secondly - I thought this website was ABOUT EXPOSING FRAUD IN MA? isn’t that what the header says? I think this guy is a fraud, a salesman with a phrase that he thinks is “catchy” but isn’t - that a bunch of KIDS have bought into.

9

Wow, you got all that from one video clip. Impressive!

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NO! their effectiveness in the RING has been proven time and time again… NOT FREAKING COMBAT! have you lost your mind? Tell me about all the Ninjas that are jumping boxers and wrestlers as the walk the back alleys of the mean streets of life… is THAT the combat you are speaking of?

whislte BULLSHIT ON THE PLAY 15 POST PENALTY!!!

Sorry Fly but if you say BOXING and WRESTLING has NOT been proven in COMBAT you don’t know your history.

11

Tigerfly, this thread is silly. I own the first tape set by Matt Thornton. On the set, he TEACHES basics, DRILLS THEM in multiple ways and says that Drilling is a good start but to actually become a good fighter you must practice against a Fully Resisting Opponent.

Yes, he DRILLS the basics (yes, really) and then progressively applies them in more “ALIVE” drills until you are facing a FRO in Vale Tudo.

You are welcome to see for yourself. Please end this flamebait and stop misquoting what Matt is teaching.

Boxing, Wrestling, not effective on the street? I won’t waste my time. Thank you Asia.

12

Tigerfly:

Please stop.

I was just begining to like you and respect you opinion, and you have to go out and say something stupid.

First of all, there is no such thing as muscle memory.

Second of all, Matt never said anything about not doing drills at all, he was talking about not relying on drills for most/all of your trining. Inf fact in that very clip he talks about the types of drills that he DOES. He calls them “alive drills”.

And lastly, SBG has produced quite a few FIGHTERS. That’s something most chinese martial arts schools in this country have yet to do.

I know that you’re semi-trolling here, but please stop.

13

Congragulation on COMPLETELY FUCKING MISSING THE POINT.

Matts training progression goes something like this:

  1. Show student move, let them practice move with no resistance

  2. Drill move with resistance

  3. Spar

All in the space of one class.

Most people never get beyond step one.

14

I think we all get the point…

Learn your individual techniques. Learn to use them together and shit.

Spar with them. This is how you learn they work.

All the while, conditioning and eating well.

Rinse and repeat.

If you are not, you are in a McDojo (well, actually, its much more likely to be a McDojang) and are probably a very good martial tapdancer.

15

Missing the Point

I think this guy is a fraud, a salesman with a phrase that he thinks is “catchy” but isn’t - that a bunch of KIDS have bought into.

If you are one of those who cannot read through a Thornton article without gritting your teeth, rolling your eyes heavenward, or throwing your hands into the air in abject frustration, I sympathise. I truly do.

One of my swan songs on Bullshido has always been to not lecture the obvious as novel. Matt Thornton presents the obvious as novel.

However, that is something of which he is very aware. He has repeatedly stated that there are two kinds of reactions to his position that he anticipates from the MA community, and these are:

  1. Duh!
  2. He is CRAZY! CHI BOLT!

What he failed to anticipate is the hostility which with many in the “Duh!” crowd would greet “Aliveness” a la Matt Thornton.

Much of that hostility is due to the fact that they perceive his demonstrations and lectures as attacks on THEMSELVES. And this is reasonable, at least, because he does at times fail to emphasise to my satisfaction that he is not the only person who trains people in this fashion. He DOES say so however, just not enough to deflect hostility.

The other problem is that I think many experienced martial artists FAIL COMPLETELY to understand who these presentations are designed for. He is not trying to sell the Straight Blast Gym to YOU! These lectures and demonstrations especially are clearly targeting a very elementary level of understanding. Bearing that in mind, he is providing a very simple and practical message to the interested MA shopper. AND BRAVO!

Why do I cheer him? Isn’t he just selling himself? No. And this is why I think that calling him a fraud is completely ridiculous.

He is detailing a principle. That’s right. He is demonstrating a general training principle that once you understand you can go out and use to consider a variety of schools.

He is NOT advertising mysterious techniques. He is NOT claiming mastery in a secret ancient invincible art. He is giving advice at the level of principle. You can’t fraud people with that. What he is, in fact, doing is giving a free basic lesson. He never claims ONLY THE STRAIGHT BLAST GYM can offer “aliveness”. He explains it so that the beginner is equipped with the ability to go and look for it anywhere. A rank beginner who stumbles across some Thornton stuff is going to be better prepared to shop for schools than if he had not.

Whether you care for his presentation or not, you cannot call the man a fraud. His message is as basic as “Size Matters” or “Caveat Emptor”…Calling him a fraud is right out of bounds.

The key to not being irritated by Thornton is simply to stop allowing yourself to take it personally.

16

Well I have nothing to add.

TigerFly please calm thyself to a reasonable state of mind.
Then read these posts by other people and approach things with a more open mind.

17

while i could use my amazing troll powers to throw this thread right off track i actually have something to say…

i agree with tigerfly, im not sure about muscle memory and such (i skipped over the posts, so sue me :p) but aliveness has been a greatly overrated concept. Am i wrong in interpreting aliveness as nothing more than actually gearing your training towards a live situation other than drilling moves in an abstract fashion?

well GEE im glad i had Matt Thornton to tell me that, otherwise i would have spent the rest of my existence thinking a fight will be a robotic and choreographed process where if i follow page 59 of the “ashida kims guide to whooping ass manual” i will be invincible. Now dont get me wrong, i think he has a valid point, but i feel this should be a natural byproduct of any decent reality oriented training, i dont see the need to put this up on a pedestal and worship it every day as the new allah.

So yea, i think aliveness is worth a passing thought, but would everyone stop posting that fucking article every time a “street” thread comes up, its just like JKD, a good point that has been made before that has become a fad so that some are ignoring other and equally important factors pertaining to the situation.

JMHO

18

I think you should have read my post. Or if you had bothered to read any of Matt Thornton’s stuff you would realize that he does not pretend that this is a revolutionary proprietary concept.

I don’t need Matt Thornton either, but I just think there’s no call to be calling him an idiot or a fraud.

I mean, it’s like everyone forgets the whole point of this site…

19

In Case That Was Too Vague…

…there ARE people for whom this is news. There ARE people who will walk into a bunch of schools and then settle on the “Cletus Fetus School of No-Touch Knockouts”. This IS a persistent and recurrent problem. So if you think Matt Thornton is an idiot or a fraud for pointing this out AND demonstrating it AND trying to explain it explicitly rather than bitching on a forum…why are you here?

20

good point wastrel,

i am not calling him either

but in the time between my last post and now i have already been referred to another aliveness article on martial arts planet

i think there needs to be an exploration of the large space between idiot/fraud and demigod, because i am FUCKING TIRED OF ALIVENESS