The Why and How of Designer Denim

or the difference between $200 jeans and jeans that sell for $200

There’s a lot of misconceptions about designer jeans out there, and chief among them is that denim is just denim and all designer jeans are just the same as your Wranglers with a different name on them, or that because they’re jeans it doesn’t make sense to spend more than $20 on them. That’s cool, but I don’t care so don’t bother me about it. This isn’t a thread for you, this is for people who want to up their game but don’t know where to start.

So what’s so bad about my jeans anyway?
Remember how Levi’s got started? Back when the world was black and white workwear was made of paper or something, so when Levi and Strauss came out with fancy new pants that would last through years of heavy wear, people noticed.

Well, Levi’s hasn’t been using denim like that in decades. Back in the 50s and 60s Levi’s and every other jeansmaker in the world suddenly found themselves peddling the most popular pants in America, and the only way for production to meet demand was to move from shuttle looms that slowly wove small spools of tight, thick denim to wide looms that produce larger bolts of looser, thinner denim much faster. Your denim aint SHIT, son.

So suddenly it’s the 80s, holy shit. Japan loves jeans. So does the rest of the world, but Japan really loves jeans. These little motherfuckers started buying up all the antique looms and trying to figure out how to make denim better. It wasn’t simply a matter of weaving the same old cotton dyed with the same old synthetic blue dyes on some antique looms and saying there, now we have captured the spirit of the original 501s, either. This is Japan, after all. Suddenly jeans are being made from the finest cotton and choicest indigo around, and they’re getting really fucking good.

But now it’s 2009, and you’re faced with a dilemma: you don’t know the difference between a pair of jeans that were [strike]folded millions of times by master swordsmiths[/strike] crafted by the world’s top denim artisans and some bullshit spawn of some marketing department. There’s far too many companies out there trying to capture this niche for a clean, concise list of do and do not buy, so I’m going to run through some of the more popular brands to buy and avoid.

Do not fucking buy:

Anything with butt flaps

This is by far the gayest thing I have ever seen on men’s clothing. Painted-on jeans and a shirt with a huge dick on it would make a straighter outfit than anything featuring butt flaps. Women should avoid this ridiculous joke too.

Anything with a retarded wash
Whether you prefer to buy your jeans in pristine blue and wear them down yourself or buy them half-dead is up to you, but if you’re buying distressed than it’s important that it looks as natural as possible. This is what a naturally faded pair of jeans looks like:

And any distressing that follows that pattern tends to at least pass. When you start to fail it is when the distressing just doesn’t make sense. I’ve seen jeans with darker thighs than calves, strips of fade all the way down the front leg, and unfaded jeans with some utterly fake looking rips. It all looks terrible.

True Religion and Seven for All Mankind (They’re too similar to get separate entries)

  • Butt flaps!
  • Some gaudy Omega symbol on the back pocket
  • Lots of retarded washes
  • Mostly the same dumpy cuts as cheaper jeans
  • Trashy women will mistake you as fashionable

True Religion and 7fAM are pretty much THE brands when it comes to selling stupid people a very expensive pair of Levi’s. It’s the same wide-spun denim in the same boring, medium blue, so to make them stand out they add butt flaps and embroidery. You might as well buy some 501s and let the first 8-year-old girl you find detail them for you.

Nudie

  • Overpriced
  • Average quality billed as some fine Eye-talian pants.
  • Tons of crotch blowouts have been reported
  • Ridiculous marketing, and the “6 month no wash” rule.
  • $200 for your jeans and you’re going to put a pleather patch on them?
  • They have a superb selection of cuts, all of which are pretty decent

Nudie actually isn’t bad, but they sell for about twice as much as they should. The cuts are merely okay and the denim really isn’t that great, yet you’re paying more than you would for a nicer pair of jeans and almost as much as some of the best jeans on the market. On top of that, Nudie has some of the trashiest marketing around and is pretty much the singular source of the grossest misconception in fashion history; that you should wear your jeans for at least six months before you wash them. I’ll cover that a little more later. Buy them if you can find a pair for $70 - $100, but do not pay retail for these jeans.

Evisu America

  • Shit painted all over your jeans

Evisu used to do some extremely good reproductions of vintage Levi’s cuts, complete with throwback detailing. Then Levi’s decided to start protecting their intellectual property. Evisu Japan is apparently still making some beautiful reproductions, but Evisu America is a joke. Bad denim, bad detailing, bad prices, and completely intertwined with the trashiest of hip hop culture.

Lucky

  • It’s Levi’s with a higher price tag
  • Very limited selection of fits

One of the Lucky outlets around here is right across the street from a Levi’s outlet, and it’s petty funny. The buildings have similar facades (Lucky’s is slightly more alternative), pretty similar collections (Lucky’s is slightly more alternative), and the jeans are pretty similar… except that Lucky’s come with fewer choices and higher price tags.

do buy:

Dior Homme

  • Some of the best looking jeans on the market
    +/- Denim is great, but some cheaper jeans do it better
  • Expensive
  • Vanity sized
  • The best thing about DH jeans isn’t wearing them, it’s telling everyone that you wear them. Fuck yeah!

Dior Homme’s cuts are far and away my favorites. You probably won’t find a better one. Now here’s the bombshell: retail is about $360. Shit. And while the denim is superb, there’s a few cheaper options out there that do it better. Also, they two sizes bigger than what’s marked on the tabs. Don’t like that shit.

DH’s jeans come in Made in Italy and Made in Japan flavors. The MII seem to have slightly larger pockets (uh?) but the MIJ are ever so slightly better.

Ironheart

  • DURABLE. Your Wranglers might as well be a pair of lace panties.
  • I hope you like 501s or bootcuts, cause that’s all they got.

Ironhearts LAST. Denimheads have compared plenty of jeans on durability, and Ironhearts always come out on top. The make and material is just absurdly good. So it’s a damn shame that their entire range consists of a 501 and a chunky bootcut. Unless you like that kind of fit.

Samurai

  • Absolutely beautiful denim
  • Great Levi’s reproductions with a good selection of pretty good cuts
  • You’re paying a lot of money for jeans that are trying their best to look like Levi’s, even if they are really really nice Levi’s.
  • Limited availability in America; hard to find any to try on, and difficult to buy them without going through expensive proxy services.

Japanese companies tend to do denim very well, then completely drop the ball when it comes to the cut and fit. Samurai is a pretty good compromise between the amazing quality of Japanese jeans and the superior cuts of Western jeans. But their branding consists of a red tab that says Samurai instead of Levi’s and a helter-skelter Levi’s accurate on the back pocket. Good jeans, but I’d prefer a more original approach.

A.P.C.

  • Ridiculously good cuts
  • Great denim
  • Minimal branding
  • Probably the best cost::quality for designer jeans
  • Made in Macau
  • Vanity sized

APC’s cuts are good. How good? They’re so good that they’ve been copied by some of the top brands in the world, including Dior Homme. The denim is nearly as thick and sturdy as the Japanese brands, and it breaks in beautifully. APC’s branding is nearly imperceptible; literally the only logos are on the rivets, the top button, and the label inside the jeans. My only complaints are that you’re spending $155 for jeans that are still made in China, even if they’re really talented Chinese and the vanity sizing makes finding your fit a lot more difficult than it should be.

Levi’s Vintage Collection

  • All your favorite Levi’s fits, only better!
  • Authentic Levi’s branding
  • Some of the best reproductions of vintage 501s
  • too much focus on funky distressing (though they have lots of good ones too)
  • Currently not available in America?

It’s kind of corny when another brand is trying to rock the red tabs, but authentic Levi’s always look cool. I know a couple of you guys are big 501 fans, and this line has reproduced everything from the original style 501s with the waist cinch and extra rivets to the 1947 501 which mixes the slimmer profile of a vintage 501 with modern detailing. All in some of the finest denim around. However, starting this year the LVC has become unavailable in America. I’m pretty sure you can get them through Europe somehow.

So what else should I know?

What is this “selvedge” all about?
This goes back to the wide versus shuttle loom thing. Denim spun on a shuttle loom is wrapped back over itself, creating an edge that will not unravel even if it is left unstitched. And it means… absolutely nothing. It’s just a side effect of making quality denim. I mean, how often have you heard of jeans unraveling? Yeah. Some people like to cuff their fancy jeans to show off the selvedge line. Don’t. You can cuff them, just don’t do it specifically to show off.

Raw?
Raw denim is a bit of a fad right now, but all it is is denim that hasn’t been washed before it was shipped to the stores. Most of the jeans you buy these days have been washed dozens of times before you buy them in big, heavy duty machines. The result is that your new jeans feel soft and partly broken in, but it also turns them this ugly medium blue and takes a considerable amount of life from your jeans. Raw denim is STIFF, especially the high quality stuff, and those first few days in your first pair of the stuff will be pretty unusual, but the result is jeans that last longer, stay darker, and break in to your body better, and if you don’t like the super dark blue you can always wash it until it turns to a shade you prefer. It’s all a matter of preference, though, so if you don’t want to fuck around with it you’re more than free to not fuck around with it.

What was that six month rule?
This rule is largely the brainchild of Nudie’s marketing department. The idea is that if you don’t wash your jeans for at least six months (some people try to stick it out a whole year and some even refuse to wash their jeans period) you’ll get contrastier fades in your denim. Not only is this a stupid reason to not wash your jeans, it isn’t even true. So long as you turn your jeans inside out to wash them the dark blue actually preserves just fine. On top of all that bullshit, not washing your jeans lets your sweat and oils build up in the denim, which weakens it and promotes tearing and blow outs. Wash your damn pants.

Shit, these pants have a button fly! The fuck am I supposed to do?!
Button flies are pretty common on designer jeans, probably to make repairing something you spent a lot of money on a little easier. A lot of people find buttons daunting because they’re difficult to stuff through those little holes at first and because they aren’t sure how to get them off. Here’s a tip: You can widen the holes a little bit with a knife or pen, just be careful that you don’t cut them or stretch them out too badly because that’s how people end up with buttons slipping out of holes. And to take them off? Grab both sides and pull. Pop-op-op-op! It’s a pretty sexy technique too.

I actually enjoyed this article. Though I have tried Wranglers, nothing seems to fit as comfortably as Levi’s. They also seem to last longer than any other brand I’ve worn.

While I still refuse to pay more than 50 dollars for a pair of pants, it’s an enjoyable article.
I find it amusing that while jeans were created to be high durability work pants, and all these fancy jeans are trying to make themselves more indestructible and all that, most people in the trades tend to wear cheap cargo pants.

Hell, I’m at my desk wearing a pair of Jeans myself (American Eagle but whaddya gonna do?). When I go out to the field, though, I enjoy busting out my Levi’s.

Thanks for the article. I enjoy myself a good comfortable pair of jeans and it’s interesting to learn of some finer details. Oh and I agree on the Sexy Technique for button fly.

Gay gay gay gay gay. Gay. Soooo gay.

Not to say that I…I mean, uh…I accept whatever you want to do with your life, and I think it’s great that you do whatever it is makes you happy. It’s just so gay though, a thread about ‘designer denim’. Just so you know.

Anyways, to your credit, I didn’t actually read the article. I just kind of skimmed down to get to the bottom to call you gay, and then I saw the word ‘samurai’ and I stopped for a second, and then I kept going some more and here we are.

I think I saw a section that said “anything with a retarded wash”. I’ll agree to that at least. I can’t fucking fathom that our society has gotten to a point where people actually pay specifically for pants that look already faded and/or stained. They will get there all by themselves, one day. Be patient.

Like those t-shirts they sell at target, where the ‘coca-cola’ logo or whatever is already crackled and the deep red has faded into a nice, hip pink. What. The. Fuck.

My stance on jeans is: If you even know what types of jeans you are wearing then you’ve already lost the battle and are now a girly-man. That’s man talk. That’s for real. Respect it.

Interesting. Don’t know why I read the article. I guess it didn’t have too many replies so I figured i’d read it. I wish I could find a pair of loose to baggy jeans anywhere these days. Not to long ago when I was in middle/high school Jncos and rediculuosly baggy jeans were in. NOw that i’m a big grown up I just want some regular looking loose jeans, which I can usually find at ol’ navy if I look hard enough. BUt I still have to buy them a size or two to big to feel comfortable. I hate this new emo style w/ guys that wear tight girl looking pants.

Way to be.

Problem is, this thread implies talking about money, which I need for better things than designer clothes.

Like food and comic books, for a start.

Why can’t I edit my posts? I wanted to add a section on Diesel (tl;dr they’re decently quality but nearly all of them suffer heavily from True Religion-esque branding and butt flaps, avoid) and on where to find these fancy pants.

---------- Post added at 04:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------

If you want to do it cheaply I’d recommend Levi’s 501 STF sized up. The 501 is pretty middle of the road on fit so you can get reasonably baggy or slim fits out of it by what size you chose. Wish the rise was lower but I don’t think Levi’s offers any other STF.

New system has timelock on editing posts. Not so useful, IMO.
Hope it’s only temporary.

Quote:MEGA JESUS-SAMA
“If you want to do it cheaply I’d recommend Levi’s 501 STF sized up. The 501 is pretty middle of the road on fit so you can get reasonably baggy or slim fits out of it by what size you chose. Wish the rise was lower but I don’t think Levi’s offers any other STF.”

OK I’ll check it out.

I have 1 pair of pants. They are jeans i got from walmart…i don’t know when. Long ass time ago.

I wear them every day, except when i’m working or have to dress up, and wash them once or twice a week.

They’ve held up great, and fit me very well. Not too tight, not too baggy.

fuck 200 dollar jeans. Seriously, if i had it my way, they wouldn’t be on me very much at all :wink:

admittedly, my wardrobe sucks. I’m not good at the clothing nonsense.

Never dropped more than 100$ on some jeans.

Jesus, Sirc. I thought you could not be any more useless, but I am glad you proved me wrong.

You forgot to put ABERCROMBIE ABERCROMBIE IM SO ABERCROMBIE in there.

i was wondering where the Diesel entry was. hook that shit up son.

no idea where to get Samurai or APC around here. most of the ‘designer’ jeans i see on racks are the shitty-washed-butt-flap-thin-ass-denim-with-bad-stitching-that-costs-too-much variety.

Given that I’m 0 for 3 on “Liquor, Loot and Ladies” (0 for 4 if you add “Denim”), I’ve been feeling distinctly unwelcome in the new L3.

That said (and this is from a guy who’s never paid more than $50 for a pair of pants in his life), much like watching people compete at an elite level at just about anything (example: cup stacking) is entertaining on a certain level, I’ve enjoyed this thread because it’s pierced the layer of “idiots with more money than taste” that asphyxiates fashion, and revealed the underlying history and theory.

You’re the Nigel to my Andy Sachs. Kudos.

I has neither money, or taste! :frowning:

A quick google image search will reveal ALL you need to know about jeans.

[quote=Munacra;2079390]Jesus, Sirc. I thought you could not be any more useless, but I am glad you proved me wrong.

You forgot to put ABERCROMBIE ABERCROMBIE IM SO ABERCROMBIE in there.[/quote]

since when did sirc get here?

[quote=Munacra;2079390]Jesus, Sirc. I thought you could not be any more useless, but I am glad you proved me wrong.

You forgot to put ABERCROMBIE ABERCROMBIE IM SO ABERCROMBIE in there.[/quote]

does sirc seriously wear abercrombie?

---------- Post added at 01:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 PM ----------

[quote=Bearf*cker;2079430]i was wondering where the Diesel entry was. hook that shit up son.

no idea where to get Samurai or APC around here. most of the ‘designer’ jeans i see on racks are the shitty-washed-butt-flap-thin-ass-denim-with-bad-stitching-that-costs-too-much variety.[/quote]

I’m pretty sure there’s a store specializing in high-end denim in Toronto, I’ll have to look into that for you. Anyone in NYC or LA can visit a brick and mortar APC store while nearly anyone in any major city should have a few small stores carrying APC, Dior, etc. If you live in San Francisco, visit http://www.selfedge.com/

I’m so drujnk