The Deification of Donn F. Draeger

another view…

http://members.tripod.com/~choisai/writings/Draeger.html

The Deification of Donn F. Draeger


    Back a few months ago, when Acme Bugei was forcibly thrust into the public spotlight by being listed on Koryu Books "Recommended Links" page, the fine folks at Koryu commented that they rather enjoyed my comments made in a mad rant in the "What's New" section about the "Deification of Donn Draeger". Since that time, I've had a number of people comment to me that they whole heartedly agree with my comments, including a few people who actually knew and worked with Draeger for a number of years. I must have hit a cord in many people who have been having the same thoughts. Anyways, I'm redoing the "What's New section and am erasing most of the old content. However, it wouldn't do for me to lose my #1 seller, so I'm relocating here and expanding it a little. 
    All right, I'm gonna write on a touchy subject here. Alot of people (and mostly people in the States who have never trained here I suspect) will probably call foul and disregard everything I say here after, but I feel this is starting to get a bit out of hand. What I am talking about is deification of Donn F. Draeger. A friend recently sent me a link to a site by some wannabe loser group of complete f**king lame-o poser bastards claiming to teach "Authentic Combative Bujutsu". The head of the group, we'll call him Soke X here, is an American who is a Shihan and Soke of several arts, including Karate, jujutsu, sword, you name it. And on top of that, you can join the group and include your martial art in the mix. One of my  friends met a couple of the supposed "Shihan" who were younger than him and, not surprisingly, not the masters they make themselves out to be. It would be akin to me calling myself a Hoki ryu shihan if I returned to the States after only training for a couple of more years, or something equally ridiculous. Actually no, its alot worse, because I am at least training in a legitimate ryuha, regardless of how bad I am at it 
Anyways, this complete loser has his own "Soke's corner" on his site, where all us mere mortals can go and learn from his great wisdom. He wrote a big page that was basically a page of quoting Draeger about what Budo and Bujutsu is (even though this guy obviously doesn't have a clue himself or doesn't care and just wants his buck). I have no problems quoting Draeger, hell I do it myself sometimes, BUT this guy basically is using everyone's high regard of Draeger to try and legitimize himself. And unfortunately most people just can't tell the difference. The problem is twofold in my opinion. One, this guy and his group are just complete frauds. But what bothers me more is the complete and utter awe everyone holds Draeger in. It seems to me that it is getting worse and worse everyday now that Koryu is the "in" thing to do even though only a handful of people have actually studied it for real, much less can teach it. I find it completely annoying how people constantly throw his name around in order to raise their reputation for one reason or another. What I find even more annoying is how he seems to have become the All Perfect Deity of Martial Knowledge in many, if not most people's eyes. 
"Draeger says this, Draeger says that, I read Draeger's books so I know". This infallible Draeger thing is really getting to me as alot of what he wrote has NO bearing or resemblance to the training I do or what I have seen or to the people I have talked to. I'll stir the pot more and say I just plain old don't agree with some of the things he says. His works are on the martial traditions of Japan as he saw them. In particular, I wish the damn -do/ -jutsu thing would just die. Absolutely none of my sensei use the terms as Draeger defined them and I've yet to meet anyone who does (not that there aren't any). Everyone's views on Budo (I use the term to mean ALL Japanese martial traditions) are unique to themselves (colored by their sensei to some extent of course). What Draeger wrote was HIS views and were tools for HIS research for how HE saw things. His writings are useful to know, great for studying some basics, and some of the only info we have in English. But it is not the "final" word. In my opinion there will never be a "final" word. Its just too personal. 
Anyone who has read the Skosses' fine "Koryu Bujutsu: Classical Warrior Arts of Japan" (1997, Koryu Books) book will notice that there several ideas of what Budo and Bujutsu are presented, ranging from Hunter Armstrong's piece, which follows Draeger's views almost to the letter, to Kato Takashi of Tatsumi ryu saying that "The goals of classical and modern budo are ultimately the same", to Ellis Amdur saying "I might mention that Donn Draeger's formulation of bujutsu... and budo... was regarded by my instructor, and in fact, by most Japanese, with bemusement when it was presented and amusement when it was explained". Now many of the people involved in this book  (Hunter Armstrong, Liam Keeley, Meik Skoss etc.) had very long close relationships with Draeger. Yet you don't see them afraid of presenting a different approach. Why everyone else has to think Draeger's pioneering work has to be the only work is beyond me. 
Draeger deserves our utmost respect. He was, after all, the pioneer, a path maker for the rest of us and the first to bring us something that wasn't just legends and stories. That alone makes him worthy of our respect. There is no need to mold him into something other than human, untouchable and perfect, when he was not. I have it on good word from people that knew him that he never viewed himself as the last word. So why should you? All this flat out worship is doing is depriving people of thinking for themselves and going off to find out for themselves. If you don't believe me, THEN COME HERE AND FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF. Your views will probably be different from mine, but I bet they might be different from Draeger's too.

Well, I have the highest regard for Draeger, as I do for Blumming, but they were not choirboys !!!
Far from that.
Give them the respect they deserve for doin what they did and being, in many ways, decades ahead of everyone else, but that is ALL they did.
Draeger was a Great MA and Writer. He was also bias about many MA.
Even Robert Smith says so in his book “martial musings”.
In my opinion Draeger was one of the best examples of a caucasian Martial artist.

I know Draeger infuriates the reverse swastika cultists and the ninja nuts.

Hmmm, maybe he deserves deification.

Notice that the guy writing the article is a “budo” guy…

robert smith sucks ass. i wish donn drager studied CMA and robert smith screwed up JMA instead of CMA.

Donn Draeger’s work was very interesting but I think you have to look at the context of his works. Comprehensive Asian Arts is the book I’m most familiar with so my comments will concern mainly that…
It was written in 1969 long before Americans had familiarity with some of the martial arts that were covered. The book serves as an introduction and a snapshot of martial arts. Were the author’s prejudiced? Yes. Did they know everything? Not by a longshot. Is it still a good book? Yes. But it is definitely not the be all end all of martial arts.

A lot of us sensible “budo guys” realize that people are just people. Simply publishing a book or training in an ancient tradition doesn’t a warrior make. :slight_smile:

That being said, I have a lot of respect for Draeger, and his influence. But since I train with one of his students, I have a pretty good sense that he was just a man, no better or worse then most of the rest of us.

The problem comes from the non-sensical budo people who have never practiced Japanese sword with integrity and intent deifiying their insturctors/ the people whose books they read/ legendary figures just because it fullfills a romantic dream of swordsmanship that they have. That attitude really irks me.

Originally posted by Jenfucius
robert smith sucks ass. i wish donn drager studied CMA and robert smith screwed up JMA instead of CMA.

Did Smith write this ? I couldn’t find the author listed.
So how did Smith screw up CMA ?

Yes, how did Smith screw up? He and Draeger were just providing information. They were probably having a great time making part of their living from what they loved. I have never deified any author, other than Mark Twain.

Who the fuck is Donn F. Draeger?

Originally posted by Boyd
Who the fuck is Donn F. Draeger?

Just where the hell have you been?

oh, never mind, I don’t want to go there…

And a good thing about Donn, is that he got Fumio Demura to the US.

Donn was THE man when it came to MA in Japan in his time.
Donn was THE man who did the most for spreading bujutsu though out the world.
HE may have been just a man, but he was more than most.
Who here or around, can even come to close to what he DID, his contributions to the MA, his dedication, the first non-japanese to be accepted to a TRADITIONAL bujutsu ryu, the first non-japanese to have EARNED teaching cedentials from a ryu that was over 400 year old.
His contributions are reknown not just because he wrote about them, HE DID THEM !!
He was even MORE practise than theory and that says A LOT when we talk about him.
He was no God, or saint, but he was a MARTIAL ARTIST, which is more than 99% of the people who do MA can say.

Donn was a tough sonofabitch! He was a big a bastard too! I bet he could take Bluming to town…

Draeger helped train Bluming into the beast he was.

One of Don’s greatest contributions to modern MA was the introduction of systemic weight training for Judo practicioners. He was a firm believer in conditioning and weight work.

Jenfu - no other details on Smith ?

patfromlogan: Your article was a nice breath of fresh air. When I read Draeger’s first book, I wished it had stuck to commenting on JMA. As I became more comfortable with training in Asia, I really began to have issues with elements of what he wrote. I really enjoyed reading what you had to say.