I’ve been training in kung fu for quite a while. It’s really been great for my fitness and striking skills. My only problem is the lack of grappling/groundwork…which is taught at higher levels (yeah, I hear you cry McDojo, but I’m happy with the quality of my training…I am the bottleneck with regards to my rate of progress…trying to balance day job, night university, family, dogs and training)
anyway, I just bought
The Complete Kano Jiu-Jutsu(Judo) by Hancock and Higashi.
do you have any comments?
I meant to train it with my bro-in-law who is big into weights training and constantly commenting negatively on my kung fu (99% of fights end on the ground crap…I say that 99% of my opponents end up on the ground:icon_twis ) BUTBUTBUT he’s only made excuses to avoid grappling with me since I got the book
I definitely plan to practice from it. I started with the first 2 tricks…falling down and tumbling;-) we do both of these, almost exactly like the book shows, from a beginner level at kung fu.
I don’t expect to ever get close to entering a judo/jj competition, but can see where some of those throws could help me in a kung-fu comp. and also as a possible addition to my SD technique…I’ve put in adequate training in striking and running for SD, so it it will definitely take tons of practice before these techniques work themselves into an automatic response action…jabs, bobs&weaves, kicks are my current automatic actions…I also grab a hand/elbow here’nthere, but mostly use the grip to pull/push my opponent to a preferable fighting range…I’d like to see this push transition to a decent throw.
my plan is to practice a bit with friends (who seem to be chickening out) and with classmates before/after class. i.e. study a ‘trick’ and practice with a resisting person who is fit/strong. one trick a week or even a month is a good starting point…my personal goals include losing more weight, getting fitter, learning to respond in a dangerous situation, learning forms and weapons…becoming an outright @$$kicker is not a goal of mine.
xcal, join a club or dojo that teaches the style. You can not properly learn a style just from a book. In fact, with a style like Judo or JJ where there are a lot of joint twists and throws, it is extremely dangerous. You need to learn with an experienced instructor who can help prevent the injuries that will result from not knowing what you are doing.
Yah, I generally agreed with your comments about not learning any fighting art from a book… although I learnt TONS of chess from a book, but had a FANTASTIC training partner in my trusty palmtop chessgenius program
My biggest problem with attending Judo/JJ/BJJ/MMA gymns is that of time. My time/life balance is not working too well:-( And I’m far too happy with my kung-fu school to quit.
In theory, I think that the method of training ‘a trick at a time’ with a resisting partner from my KF school will work for me. My fitness/technique is about middle in my class, but WAAAAY behind in the forms (coz I skip many sessions to attend university lectures). This means that I’ll be practising with ppl who are usually stronger and faster than I am…although I’m one of the taller guys in class at 1.84m and one of the heavier at ±90Kg. ALSO, with the large variety of backgrounds in my school, I know that there are a few guys in my class who have trained Judo previously(many have strong karate/TKD backgrounds).
Have you read/reviewed the book? To my unitiated eye, the first 20something ‘tricks’ do not seem too horribly dangerous…unless you fall on your face, but as I said, beginners start falling on day1 and tumbling quite quickly. according to my project plan, 20tricks will take me quite a long while
It’s great book, but at the end of the day it’s just that, a book. Chances are the University you’re at has a Judo club, and if it does, you should go by and check it out.
yeah, www.wits.ac.za does have an active Judo club…but I work full-time, study part-time, have a family+dogs, and try to train kung-fu. Joining another MA school for cross-training is not an option for me:-( A possible option is to quit my regular kung-fu class and attend private grappling training sessions with Sifu…but that means that I MUST be able to dedicate a specific time every week according to Sifus schedule… I do not have the luxury of scheduling myself around anybody elses time:-(
back to my analogy with the chess book: that’s just a book. regularly reading and applying the techniques GREATLY helped my game (the prerequisite is that I had a good partner). I can easily draw a parallel to judo, or anything in life. time, effort and good practice.
If you want grappling training. Stop learning from book. Quit kung-fu, forget private grappling training with your sifu. Look harder for legitimate school that can teach you grappling in your area that has schedule available you can attend.
And it’s not ‘trick’, they are techniques you need to learn properly and to train properly. Otherwise, you think you know how to do a really crappy ippon seoi nage (one arm shoulder throw) or kata jujijime (cross-collar choke) and you will end up doing one of following…
Hurt yourself (screw your ippon seoi nage and throw your back out, loose balance and drop to your knee hard and bust your knee, etc.)
Hurt your friend or brother (choke them out too long or throw them poorly and land them in wierd angle, etc.)
Fooling yourself to think you can do this in ‘SD’ situation and get your ass beat down hard.
guys, you’re not hearing me! time is not an option! I already stopped attending my regular class (3sessions a week)…I only make it when I feel like bunking university, or university is on holiday. Instead, I attend Tiger classes (our intro to grappling) once a week. I practice as much as possible on the weekends and try to run about 15km a week. This weekend work+running is when I can take time away from my family…or convince my son to join me for a run. There is no time for more classes.
I plan to take on a lighter university load next year, but will concentrate on kung-fu…no plans to tackle another MA school for a very long time.
I would suggest that you stop trying to learn judo then. If you want to learn judo go learn judo. But please dont bastardize it and think you know judo from some book, then 10-15 years from now teach kids how to grapple because you think you know how. If I want to learn how to punch someone, I wouldn’t go ask my judo instructor. I would go talk to my boxing coach.
Everyone here is right xcal. There are trade offs to be made, and if you cannot trade anything at the moment for real instruction then it is not the right time for you to learn it. Book learning will only develop bad and dangerous habits, as well as a large potential for injury.
Be patient and wait for the right time. In the long run you will still progress faster than learning bad habits and having to unlearn everything (much harder then learning it right the first time).
Books and videos really are there as a reference for people who are already in training. There is a lot to a technqiue that you can’t write down in reasonable space and you need the supervision of a coach.
Noones trying to steer you wrong here…
Most(any worthy) grappling schools encourage randori, so that you can test your techniques(tricks), first as kata against a moderately resisting training partner, then in randori(sparring) against a fully resisting opponent…
Its been said already here, but if you want to learn some grappling, find a BJJ or Judo school, and if you do not have time for it ,just keep studying Kung Fu in the little time you have. Actually I encourage(well really dare) you to keep training in your tiger classes untill you feel (somewaht)confident, then take a local BJJ/Judo academy up on a free introductory class(most offer a free class), to find you have wasted your time on crappling.
Just my 2 cents…
Xcal, dude, I would think twice before trying to learn throws and locks from a book and a partner. Fine if you want to drill breakfalls, but that’s about it. Unless your partner has some experience in Judo (I’d dare to say green belt or above for the most basic of things), there won’t be anyone to correct you in what you are doing right or wrong.
A lot of people make the assumption that a Judo throw is to put your feet here, grab the arm, turn around this way, give the back, bend over and voila, the throw occurs. There wil be no one to tell you your foot needs to be more this way or that way, or that you need your hips to connect, or that you are not making contact hard enough, or that you are using more force than technique, or that you are not unbalancing your opponent yet, and so on and so on.
Plus you need a really cushioning mat for that, all assuming that both you and your partner already know how to breakfall… which takes lots and lots of practice. If you can’t find time to practice at a Judo club, I doubt you’ll find enough time to practice breakfalls… and there is the physical conditioning of it, which you get in a Judo class, and which you need to pull these throws effectively.
And for chokes and locks, be careful. You don’t really want to hurt your partner or yourself. This is another thing you would like to learn and train under the supervision of a qualified instructor.
I give you kudos for considering cross training, and with Judo to say the least. I’m not questioning your interest in the art, but I honestly doubt you will reap the benefits you hope to get from training from a book with a partner
yes, this book is great for HISTORICAL purposes. Read the publication date, it was originally written in 1903 and republished, without change, in 2003 or something; I own the book too.
There has been a huge evolutionary step in both the techniques and training of both judo and jiu-jitsu since 1903.
First, get an accredited judo or jiu-jitsu instructor;
Second, train alive;
Third, train alive some more;
Fourth, goto “first”;
Fifth, buy a modern judo or jiu-jitsu book to supplement your ALIVE TRAINING AND INSTRUCTION FROM A QUALIFIED TEACHER.
babo78: I hear what you say about taking grappling on seriously if I want to be serious about grappling…you can walk on the left side of the road, you can walk on the right side of the road, but do not walk in the middle;-) The problem is that I’m not serious about taking grappling seriously.
What I want to know from you is: how do you know that my Sifu cannot teach me legitimate grappling??? what do you know of him that can backup your statement?
with regards to SD: I’m sure that we all agree that pre-planning ‘you do that, then I do this’ is the most stupid thing on earth! The technique must flow without being forced. ‘I don’t act, IT acts’
My body will know when it’s good enough to pull a particular trick (trick is the word used in the book to describe the techniques). without the correct training and hardwork in grapling, my body will stick to the jab,bob/weave,kick that it currently knows.
