Systema explained

Hi guys. Please read through thoroughly before commenting.

INTRO

I have been reading lot of the forums about mixed martial arts, paying particular interest to systema. There seems to be a lot of hate coming across when comparing martial arts. There is one particular person who has such an attitude and is aggressive in debating. Lets try to get along okay?

Systema doesn’t seem to be very popular and I would like to clear some things up.

Firstly, the system follows a very different approach to popular martial arts around the world and challenges their linear thought patterns.

If you are into big kicks, boxer stances, animal forms and savage fist fights then obviously you are no going to like systema or rather understand it. It has a different application and attitude altogether. It is not a sport and cannot be monitored for points. It is a self defense system than says-you attack me and I will disarm you, dismantle you and lock you on the ground until being dealt with further. It has no forms or katas which some might find frustrating. It is a system that teaches us to fight the way we walk, sit, work and behave normally without the put on of hard and soft forms. We train the way we fight and the way we normally move. A lot of martial arts appear different in training and in form than actual real life application. By maintaining natural movements we are in fact creating consistency in everything we do. Some martial arts try and instill and drill you for hours to perform repetitive movements until they are instinctive.

Systema is used for self defense for military combat personal and civilian self-defense. Practically used for hostage situations, rescue missions, close quarter combat, disarming and just basically surviving almost any circumstance when conditions are bad.

Its philosophy is about calmness, restoration, religion and Russia’s cultural history. It is a way of life the Russians created to instill peace and order.

THE CORE

In terms of it’s fighting approach, systema uses a completely diff approach to fighting:

a. It is non-aggressive and maintains calmness and fearlessness. When your body is relaxed you can function better. You panic less which enables you to think clearer.

b. Your first line of defense is to move away from strikes using the wonderful art of deflection and simply stepping. No blocks are used because it doesn’t allow motion to flow and inflicts wounds on yourself.

c. You have the ability to deflect and roll off strikes to the body as a second line of defense. If you dont believe me then watch TIME WARP on discovery channel which shows you in super slow motion the energy displacement of a punch to the stomach as the skin and fat ripples out. It is amazing and it exists.
Systema teaches the body to react through neuromuscular memory. If you are getting stabbed in the back then your body will automatically twist and shape around the blade to minimize the wound. The same with punches and kicks.
When we train, we close our eyes to train our body’s reaction to threats.

d. As a last resort, you can absorb and displace energy when being hit or thrown around. Ever wondered why drunk people survive car crashes better than others? It is because they are relaxed and flimsy enough to absorb impact better. If your opponent is bigger than you and delivers a heavy blow when you are tensed up, you are going to get hurt badly. Training sometimes includes things like being thrown across the room or against a wall to train neuromuscular memory and body timing to roll out the impact. What martial art teaches that?
I have personally seen senior students being hit hard with sticks and being punched full on in their stomachs at all angles and still remain standing’ with a little discomfort’. It is all done by breathing techniques and allowing your stomach and body to relax and absorb the strike like a balloon. That is why I mentioned fear loss being important in the beginning as it is extremely difficult to “let go” while someone is going to hit you. I have never seen an art that teaches that, The rest reckon if you tense your stomach you will be fine. The heavy weight world boxer at a stage punched a systems corporal at a seminar full on and broke his hand. You cant break a water balloon very easily.

e. Your arm’s and leg’s weight is heavy enough to deliver a brutal blow when relaxed. It also allows more follow through. You waste a lot of energy by using too many muscles that hold your strikes back. You can hit multiple people with one strike. Your body is like a wave, creating movement from your feet right through your legs and out the hips and into the arms. Boxers might no like this!

f. Attacking and defending punches and kicks are used simultaneously into one. An arm or leg can be used. One can punch and deflect at the same time in multiple movements. Difficult to explain.

f. There are no preset stances. When time is of the essence and space is limited then the “crouching tiger” is not really going to work. By standing, sitting or lying as you normally would, it allows you the freedom to anywise your body in relation to the attacker’s, be in a comfortable position and doesn’t alert the enemy that you have something sneaky up your sleeve waiting for them. Who ever says that landing on the floor means you have lost the battle, is simple unrealistic. No matter how great you are, if you get taken down, then build a bridge and get over it. You can fight just as well, even better from there. Most fights en up in hugging matches so grappling is very important and systema teaches one to manipulate joints , etc.

g. No set moves and has no “martial arty” style. Reason being is that it teaches you how to react to an attack quickly instead of remembering one of hundreds of applications that have to be drilled into ones head and cannot be remembered because of adrenalin and panic. Systema teaches the student to cut to the chase with no frills added.

Do what is logical, using your and your opponents body-mechanics to dismantle him. Simple. But is it? I think this is where the arguments come in and is probably the no.1 reason why people are generally afraid of this non-technique, because it leaves them with nothing, no bread and butter stance, kick, punch, block, punch routine. Systema uses common logic, no high end round house kicks and aggressive kick boxing techniques.

The body works one way, no matter what fighting style you do. If your style utilizes body mechanics efficiently and effectively without wasting time on unnecessary flamboyant stuff then you are on the right track. When it comes down to it, a fight between two martial artists ends up as a hugging match or cat and mouse game. It never looks as good as it does in the movies. It is actually really messy. Thats why I laugh when I think back to my Shaolin Kung fu training and its style. When it came to a competition, you had guys with boxing gloves on and it looked like any ordinary school fight. Shocking.

h. Weapons, weather it be a gun, military spade (shovel to the americans), whip, staff or garden fork, systema treats then all the same. We train in a big circle learning the hard way to dodge flying whips and staffs.

i. We use great rolling techniques to get out of hand locks and grappling locks. A systema student can jump out a plane at a low level and roll on the ground with a weapon in his hand and have no injured shoulders unlike our “tiger roll”. We do the human roll. Once again, It’s all about impact management.

CONCLUSION

In conclusion I have briefly explained the system and hope it clears some images in your mind.
I get angry when some people denounce systema as bullshit on this forum. Systema is not a sport, nor is it in my opinion a style of any sort. It simply uses body mechanics to defend and dismantle opponents form when being attacked. If you like aggressive sports or want something a bit more showy then so be it, but dont slate this system. It had a specific objective. I mean what martial art offers such unique training. Do you think a kick boxer, or other eastern martial artist is going to know how to handle multiple attacks with guns involved or is trained to cope in hostile situations under compromising conditions or have battlefield experience. No. This is the real thing. This and sambo is used by special ops to defend a country, not to represent or maintain a reputation of a martial arts school.

If this is the feeling then you clearly haven’t trained at one of the schools long enough to see its potential. It goes so deep. My instructor can’t explain to visitors what Systema is exactly, because they have to experience it for them-selves. It took me about a month to understand the principals and realise that I had to get rid of my bad habits I picked up at Shaolin Kung-Fu.

You may look at the videos and think wow,boring,crap or ask what exactly is that technique. The simple truth is that if you are into sporty martial arts, you are not going to or will battle in grasping the concept of this art. Yes, it looks easy but it is difficult and takes many months and years to really get good.
You are training yourself how to react by using your body and mind’s intelligence through observing, reacting and applying body-mechanics. Whilst alot of martial arts except Aikido ‘I think’ condition your body for blows, systema cleverly uses deflection and the body’s wave motion to bring the opponent down. What are you going to do when you are 60 years old and have to fend off an intruder. Your physical is gone mate, all you have left is intelligence and the knowledge to defend yourself by utilizing body-mechanics . You are not training to just kick, mindlessly punch and take down. It is very easy to learn that. You are learning to use your body as a reactive super weapon.

If you think it is silly and you want to fight. By all means, challenge a spetznas soldier or systema instructor at a seminar and you will find yourself on you butt, with an aching sore body. It is mind blowing training and is so versatile to use.

Thank you.

Best Regards

hehehe, wrong forum newbie, the powersa that be will be here shortly

where is suposed to go

Hi guys. Please read through thoroughly before commenting.

Why do that when one could already make the perfectly safe assumption that you’re a dumbass?

Now, to preface my comments, I do not know much about Systema, nor have I ever commented on it in Bullshido or elsewhere. However, you say you have been reading a lot in these forums, and yet a closer reading of much of the information posted here on Bullshido seems to be really necessary for you. I mean the whole sport vs. street (or battlefield?) has been done to death. Please, go back and read the pertinent threads.

Do you think any form of h2h training, including systema is going to really help you against multiple attacks with guns? No, they won’t. Getting yourself a gun, running, pleading for mercy, these all may work better. Don’t bring systema to a gun fight.

How low of a level are we talking here??

Are you implying that boxers do not learn how to punch most effectively, that they learn to punch only with their arm/shoulder, instead of their whole body? Because if that is what you are arguing then you have no idea what you are talking about. As someone who has done some Muay Thai in the past, I can tell you that one of the first things that we learn with throwing punches is how to start by rotating the feet and hips.

Anyways, can a mod please move this to YMAS, I’m feeling a little constrained in this forum.

Goon and DDLR had convinced me that systema was kinda cool. Then you drop this load of russochi on the dining room floor. Alot of things you mentioned are not unique to systema, but if you want to know when you left this planet, it was on point c.

Guns have everything to do with systema moron.

What is up with you guys. You are all so bloody rude. It explains why you like to fight. You have the wrong idea completely.

I am just trying to explain something and all you guys have is anger and ego problems. Its fine dont take interest. The fewer people who know and do systema the better.

that they learn to punch only with their arm/shoulder, instead of their whole body?

Actually, I think he was trying to argue that it’s better to just punch with your arm.

MAP would be a good place for it.

how old are you spetznas? I ask because some of the myths you spew into your explenation can only be understood in the context that you’re either really young, or really naive, I would like to know which one is it

The fewer people who know and do systema the better.

Then why did you write that big fucking essay in the first place? And why are you getting so pissy?

okay how do i delete my post and move it to the correct forum?

How low of a level are we talking here??[/QUOTE]

Alright, I’m listening. How would you defend against this sort of gun attack using Systema?

Lol systema. That is all.

Once upon a time, a group of people got sick of how polite the internet was, and really decided it needed more childish name calling and trading of insults.
This was the genesis of Bullshido.
Regarding your initial post, worry not - it’s not the lack of kata and horse stances which make people dislike systema.
In my case, it’s the lack of any concept of leverage as applied to takedowns. Observe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]AvF17Wd4Fz4

Notice how the dude is just kind of gently shoving people in one spot, and then they fall down. He’s making only a single point of contact, and staying at arm’s length during the “throw.” He is not engaging his own body weight to move his opponents. There is very little leverage actually being applied to the person receiving the throw. It’s the same problem you see in Aikido - inefficient throws that look like they work because they’re only practiced against compliant opponents. In many years of grappling, and having fought people from a wide variety of martial arts backgrounds, this methodology of throwing has never worked.

Compare to this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=[yt]LtfzG4KJL5w
I’m using a sambo video because it makes for a good contrast as Russia’s other well-known martial art. Notice the following:
-How the thrower usually makes at least three, compared to the Systema-ists one, point of contact during the throw; sleeve, collar, and hip; sleeve collar, and foot; and so on.
-How, particularly in the hip throws and and sacrifice throws, that he uses the shifting of his own weight, in addition to the momentum of his opponent, to execute the throw.
-How he keeps his body close to his opponent, to minimize space for an escape or reversal of the throw, as opposed to the huge amount of space the systemaist afforded his partners.
-How when the throwee lands, the thrower maintains control of him - either perched above him or landing in a pin - rather than letting him roll away as in the Systema demo. -Notice also, that these are by and large the types of throws which are used succesfully when grapplers meet; whether it’s in Judo, Sambo, Greco-Roman, Mongolian wrestling, or any other competitive form of grappling.
The takedowns in the second video present a much higher degree of the type of control needed to throw an opponent than in the first. In short, they’re better.

thank you for your reply. I appreciate your constructive contribution.
Just cant see hoe o delete this thread. I would love to learn combat sambo. I am in south africa

McClaw wins by internet submission?

Oh no, we are losing another member./sarcasm

See I was tempted to put this in newbietown. I caught it to late.

Anyway. people don’t like many things, if you enjoy systema practice it and ignore the insults.

What you wrote is typical for multiple Martial Arts. I mean everything you wrote was quite funny in a grand scheme of what we call larping, as defined by this web forum.

You are training yourself how to react by using your body and mind’s intelligence through observing, reacting and applying body-mechanics.
This is the goal of every Martial art on this planet including so called “sport arts.”

Systema is used for self defense for military combat personal and civilian self-defense. Practically used for hostage situations, rescue missions, close quarter combat, disarming and just basically surviving almost any circumstance when conditions are bad.
Again I can show you multiple threads, books, instructors making the same claim about “Eastern Martial arts.”

You also do the “big claims” that many so called "eastern Martial Arts you just denounced, claim.

We use great rolling techniques to get out of hand locks and grappling locks. A systema student can jump out a plane at a low level and roll on the ground with a weapon in his hand and have no injured shoulders unlike our “tiger roll”. We do the human roll. Once again, It’s all about impact management.
Proof please. Also, the people telling you these stories cannot be formerly trained Military students.

Look up Ddlr and read his threads about systema. He actually helps in trying to giving accurate information.

McClaw you are a legend. I like your post
I was thinkin of doing Sambo. I would need to find it in South Africa though.

I have to reply, I must. It was wonderful to see the two U Tube videos, I saw it live.

At the Gene LeBell event in Toronto before the matches we had a demo of systema AFTER a Sambo demo. During the systema demo the Wife of one of my players said “Are we supposed to laugh?”

I wrote a great deal about this in my days of running the Judo forum at the Underground. You guys said it much better than I ever did or could.

Mark Tripp