Don’t really know anything about that one.
personally i try and avoid the politics stuff. I just like to SORD FITE
:glasses9: Cool Beans, yeah fun is fun, but it’s always nice to know what the bottom of a river is like if your going to jump in. Well thanks for being kind enough to answer questions.
Now if you excuse me I’ve got some unfinished business to take care of:new_all_c
All I know is hearsay. Unfortunately, I can’t find the best SFI thread on this – it was probably deleted. The only thing I can say that’s inarguable is that Clements and several non-ARMA WMA instructors have become alienated from one another over time.
This post on the ARMA forum mentions some incidents I’ve read about elsewhere, plus some I haven’t.
Thanks for the linkie sir Ocelot, I gotta say after reading threw some of the threads. John Clements does come off as a tad arrogant. But then again could be like Annatrocity said and his “no-bullshit” can just make him come off as such. Kinda like some folks here, obviously know what their talking about, but humility is not exactly a strong point.
Well like I’ve said before, just my opinion take it for what you will.
Arrogance isn’t really a bad thing. To one degree or another if you’re the fighter type you really need some.
Well I guess I’m not the "fighter type " then AnnaTrocity. But hey I’ve never been a competitive type. Don’t get wrong here though, I don’t mind compeition or what have you. I like it as much as the next guy. But it’s not the do and end all of my existence like it might be yours as a “fighter type”. Personally I’m the more scholarly type. I prefer reading a good informative book to watching a good entertaining ass-whipping. But some fights, I wouldn’t want to miss for the world. Well anyway you being ex-ARMA you would have a better idea with what J.C. and ARMA is about. Again appreciate the replies from you.
You’re kind pulling shit out of your ass if you the only reason anyone does modern competitive fencing is to pretend they’re re-enacting the age of dueling. People don’t fence to re-enact, they fence to compete in a sport they think is fun.
Also, deaths in close quarters to guerilla units with blades is pretty staggering is southeast asian countries, so to at least some portion of the modern world, close quarter sword tactics are relevant(particularly when you already have a machete or ginunting deployed to chop through undergrowth.
I would definately pay money to see a dvd of him showing up at a Dog Brothers gathering.
That would be nice to see, I would love to see a WMA big name go to a Dog Brothers gathering. Personally I think he would do pretty well.
I think he’d do awesome, as well. ARMA guys spar hard with a variety of trainers from the padded type to wood to dull steel. And they test cut. IMO that’s about as close as you can get in these modern times to actually preparing yourself to fight for real with swords.
The reason I liken Clements and ARMA to the UFC is that Clements was one of the first people to really become outspoken about training in the historical fighting arts in a realistic way. Whether it’s applicable to modern self defense or not, Clements wanted to train these fighting methods as a legit martial art. Not as reenactment, not as LARPing and not as a sport that holds little resemblance to real combat. And as part of that he highly advocated aliveness. Not that he called it that, but he advocated lots of free sparring with a variety of trainers.
And also, like the UFC (MMA, Thornton, the Gracies, etc.) after he did all that you had people coming out of the woodworks shouting “Hey that’s nothing new, we’ve always done that!” Of course, no one had ever noticed them doing it before, nor had they done anything to promote or encourage it. And much like karateka who “discovered” that there was always grappling hidden in their kata, you had “classical” fencers suddenly claiming they had a “living tradition” of medieval fighting arts… yadda, yadda.
The parallels are pretty amazing, IMO. And I do not exagerate when I say I owe a large part of my views on aliveness and sport MA (no “too deadly to spar” crap) to my involvement with ARMA.
Fencing originally was developed to be a martial art and to train as such to defend and attack with a sword. Simply making it non-lethal and assigning points (the result of turning ANY practice into a sport) doesnt detract from its original purpose. I didnt say anything about that being the only reason a person does but it IS an aspect in more than a few. If you like playing with swords cool, if you like playing with swords competitively thats great to. But dont pretend fencing isnt neo classical martial arts revisionism reimagined
On your other topic, im not going to pretend that you have a source to back that statement up but as far as insurgency and guerrilla fighting goes, stabbing or cutting deaths must be fractionally insignificant compared to those via gunshots. For all the press the Congo Machete gangs got back in the late 90’s it was still the good ole fashion AK and FAL that did the most damage. If you can prove me wrong im up for it though
In the last fencing team I was on, out of 40 people there was exactly one who did any kind of historical reenactment. I don’t think the contention that people’s reasons for participating in the sport of fencing is very similar to their reasons for playing tennis or soccer is really contentious. People do the sport because it’s fun and athletic. If you want reenactment, there are simply better venues to pursue it than the activity of fencing.
I want to do ARMA-type shit with the japanese sword, but it’s been pretty hard to convince the traditional sword practitioners that I know to try it out with me.
SPORT /= LARPING.
YOU LOSE.
Go ahead and address any of the arguments I laid out above.
Otherwise, you’re just a waste of time.
Why bother? you cant even define sport correctly. Sport is nothing more than an activity that is performed competitively against another. A prime example would be Jousting. a LARPish activity since your usage of the phrase seems to only extend to what people where and not what they do. Jousting is a sport but its also Larping. Sport and Larping arent necessarily mutually exclusive despite your erroneous belief otherwise.
That a person can competitively Larp is beyond you in the same sense that a a recognized sport is only considered not larping because of its official recognition by some over arching governing body. 2 jokers on youtube hitting each other with foam swords while wearing period clothing isnt much different from to jokers on ESPN hitting each other with electronic stylus while wearing official protective gear. The reasons maybe different but the activity is the same. Get over it.
Except that the reason is what makes it a LARP. By definition.
Someone doing NHB fighting who goes naked and prays to zeus first in an attempt to recreate olympic pankraiton is LARPing. He may very well be doing kickass NHB sport fighting at the same time. Someone playing swishy pokey with wire toys wearing a fencing jacket is not LARPing. Whatever you think of their sport.
I’ve met John - he’s a character.
Most of the ARMA folks I actually know are pretty good people, they train hard. Some real quality research being done by some of them as well.
Thanks for that explanation. But wouldnt your example be highly similar to a person who takes for example iado, dresses up in a hakama and spends the first half hour of practice going over ritual meditation before actual practice? What makes dressing up like a Roman and praising Zeus while flashing a Sparda any different LARP wise, than a person dressing up in a Kimono saying shinto chants and flashing a Katana?
The whole point im trying to make i guess is that alot of stuff IS larping but isnt considered larping for whatever reason. That reason remains unknown to me.
I’ll admit to having fenced competitively in junior college. My honest opinion is that it’s a worthwhile sport and developed the best reflexes I ever had in my life.
But anyone who fences with their hand above their head IS a LARPist. And probably a faggot too.
Nothing in life has clean boundaries. I think in your example, my question would be whether the person is really into zen, or really into hakama. :tongue5: