Simply put "Combat" has no rules, "Sport" has many.

Reviews, Videos, and Everything Else Trollshido
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hello, i decided to finally join this site, i have read many posts throughout the years. I’m new at this posting thing but i will try to comment on multiple posts above, let me know if i screwed up, maybe my kids can help me…(see info at bottom)
Let me preface this by explaining i have been studying martial arts for over 24 years, i started kickboxing after wrestling in high school, the last 20 years i’ve been practicing Jujitsu and Judo, teaching since 1995/1996?, in addition to dabbling in Kempo and Kung-Fu My purpose of joining this thread, and basically this site, is to respond to posts related to Danzan-Ryu Jujitsu, more appropriately called Kodenkan Jujitsu, Kodokan Judo, and anything Jujitsu style related really, tradition and modern. I’m an instructor of multiple styles of Jujitsu, I don’t do much Judo anymore, I have back/disc issues, from a combination of construction work and martial arts over the past two decades.
First, Omega Supreme. It is unfortunate you have had such negative interactions with Danzan Ryu Instructor’s in the past. That is NOT the way the systems founder Henry S. Okazaki wanted it based on his writings. Not all of us are like that, i have met some of them also. I want to change that. And not only does Judo have kicks but they have a list of Vital Pressure Point Striking also, some even do healing arts.
Also what needs to be known is that there are many Danzan Ryu lineages out there. Someone mentioned the AJJF, yes they are the largest, but not the original. Also, yes they(ajjf) take a more kata approach I’m very aware, they also do something called freestyle. Other lineages do randori, standing and on the ground, also kata, and some even spar.
I just tested one of my students for his 1st Black, he did randori up and down, also multiple attackers, knife and gun, plus the katas.
Rememeber Okazaki, Danzan Ryu founder, had a Sumo Team and he himself competed in MMA way back in the 1920’s, and he won (documented in history). Judo founder, Kano, even visited Okazaki’s school and taught on at least one occassion. Okazaki was a 3rd Dan in Judo under Kano himself.

Second Yamabushi7. As for the ‘proclamation’ I’ve had personal conversations about that in the past with “hi ups”, and that is total bull***t. The proclamation supposedly came from Okazaki’s son and there was some manipulation involved by certain AJJF professor’s who I won’t mention here. But I know exactly who was involved and lets just say leisure fishing trips were involved also, which to those old timers in the know, will verify i’m not pretending here. Here’s why it is a BS proclamation. Master Okazaki’s and his son went thru lets just say some differences (son and father not speaking etc). When Okazaki died he had not been communicating with his son, his son was not even studying at the time and certainly was not a teacher at Master Okazaki’s school in Hawaii. Okazaki did not appoint a successor, the closest thing to it was Sig Kufferath being the first appointed head of instruction at the school after the masters death. Master Okazaki’s son did not even know the whole system, Sig and others did. Anything the son signed, gave ,or whatever was not worth the paper it was written on. So, Yamabushi7, if anyone had even half a chance at successorship/sokeship it would have been Master Sig K. This is exactly the kind of BS that causes static between the multiple Danzan organizations and has for YEARS.

Now somewhere here i read something about a Danzan-ryu black-belt could not hold up in the street against a Judo black-belt or BJJ black-belt. Actually i see it the other way around, remember now i have a Judo background also and wrestling and have taught many BJJ guys in the past. I see BJJ as a form of Judo, not Jujitsu. It came from Judo, has always been Judo, it just focuses on what we know in Judo as the “Newaza”. I will say there are some Danzan-Ryu black-belts that are next to shameful, but most arts have some of these people. If the Danzan-Ryu person has trained correctly and has been exposed to the upper level black-belt arts they will fight very well, and will die trying. Most of it would be illegal in sports like Judo and BJJ so you must separate them. No i don’t believe in “Combat Sports” even though i do follow MMA. Combat is one thing, Sport is another, very different and Danzan-Ryu is MUCH more combative than both Judo and BJJ.
Advanced Danzan Ryu can become like Chinese Kempo, that is how I teach it.
If anyone is seriously wanting to learn valid Kodenkan Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, one of the most comprehensive Jujitsu system on the planet and if your in Arizona, email me. Also we offer a different Goshin Jujitsu system designed for a distant learner, if you have a partner to train with, I can set you up with a very solid course, for nearly free. You must train it with effort, we assign you a teacher who corresponds with you, train and test by video, we review at one of our schools, and eventually get you certified. It is NOT a papermill type thing, you actual get sweatty and banged up a bit, it’s a great course, it is self-defense/street focus however, not sport.
email: jitsuyo@hotmail.com

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[QUOTE=Corysan;2582229]If the Danzan-Ryu person has trained correctly and has been exposed to the upper level black-belt arts they will fight very well, and will die trying. Most of it would be illegal in sports like Judo and BJJ so you must separate them. No i don’t believe in “Combat Sports” even though i do follow MMA. Combat is one thing, Sport is another, very different and Danzan-Ryu is MUCH more combative than both Judo and BJJ.[/QUOTE]

I may regret this, but…

What do you think is the difference between “combat” and “sport” in terms of the practical training? How do you prepare for combat differently from preparing for sport? How is Danzan-Ryu “MUCH more combative” than Judo and BJJ?

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[QUOTE=Styygens;2582237]I may regret this, but…

What do you think is the difference between “combat” and “sport” in terms of the practical training? How do you prepare for combat differently from preparing for sport? How is Danzan-Ryu “MUCH more combative” than Judo and BJJ?[/QUOTE]

hello Styygens, i like your photo…
Simply put “Combat” has no rules, “Sport” has many. Think of it from a Judo or BJJ perspective. Players training with a certain mindset. Same in combat, a certain mindset, ask any soldier of war. I have now or I’ve had students that were former military Special Ops, real seasoned warriors, they understand this difference in mentality.
I have always said I learn more from my students then they do me, that is because I dare to step back try new arts and test them. I look at the combat and sport perspectives. I use to grapple with guys that had a nice BJJ base; they were training for cage fights. It became clear how certain striking got in the way of them executing their techniques, and that was when I was being nice. In simple form, Tiger Claw techniques to eyes, throat, groin. I do a demo for students were i show the difference in an arm submission or what to do to break the thing quickly. I show another at Brown belt that does the same with a neck. Huge difference. Allowed in “combat” not in sport, not in “mma”, those things are crucial… you don’t ‘tap someone out’ in war ,you kill them, you have to. obviously in training we can’t, nor would we want to, kill our partner, but the idea is there and certain techniques are practiced.
Advanced arts in Danzan-Ryu which I practice and teach, the system lets just say could be viewed as “unethical”, flat out dangerous…life and death, it’s not even self-defense that’s cuz it’s “combat”…there’s a difference I had to learn the laws.
VERY different from the Judo and BJJ, I support and practice those arts at times don’t get me wrong, but they are “sports”.
As far as “practical training goes” "sport is more practical/useful in an everday civil society. Most of Danzan-Ryu is practiced civilized and by doing so its arts are often misunderstand,
it has to be this way, due to responsibility. Later arts are kept in ones hip-pocket if you know what i mean, you won’t see them performed in public, the system was designed like that.

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But, don’t you impose limitations on the techniques when you train for “combat?”

In other words, you’re not going full force with “lethal” techniques. You’re imposing a certain set of rules in order to practice.

I know this is the case because otherwise (at the risk of sounding silly) you’d be maiming or killing your students before they even had a chance to learn the technique. So it seems to me you have at least as many limitations practicing supposedly deadly techniques as you do in Judo randori, or boxing with a partner.

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I can assure you “full force” or “lethal” techniques can very well be practiced, if you saw my hands last week you’d see what i mean. This is done multiple ways. 1. partners get “armored up” specialized protective gear(attacker not defender), combat trainers call it the “red-suit”. 2. Specialized striking targets, like “The Bob” the anatomical rubber man, or other ancient methods(used in Kyusho Jitsu) for centuries. 3. Last but not least, this will sound crazy to some, healing arts (i won’t get detailed on that), just be assurred there’s a close relationship between killing and healing, ask an accupuncturist.
Maybe on the simplistic level, take the techniques in Judo and BJJ that require a uniform to pull them off, how many practice without Gi’s on? We certainly do, I also specially designed a course (100 key techniques) of which none of the techniques require a uniform. there ya have it!

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TL;DR- it’s my personal belief that practitioners of Dan Zan Ryu are Bipolar retards.

That is all.

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Some full force lethal RBSD training in Arizona:

//youtu.be/zrFOb_f7ubw

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Corysan, thanks for posting. My uncle trained under Wally Jay in the 50s and 60s and was the first to get me into mas. I think that Henry would be sad if he saw the way his style has evolved.

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[QUOTE=Yamabushi7;2565713]
I like to think things would have been better for me had I been allowed to attack fingers or thumbs that Danzan Ryu allows or been able to punch.[/QUOTE]

I don’t have as much experience as you do, but I use to train in small joint manipulation when I took TKD (they integrated hapkido techniques into our self defense) I started doing BJJ about a year ago. And on my first day I kept going for wrist and finger locks (because I didn’t know how to grapple) that I had “perfected” in my previous school, and what I found was that the BJJ guys shut me down. I couldn’t isolate the joint, they knew better, and countered every-time. Even when I did get a wrist-lock on one guy, I couldn’t apply enough pressure to make him tap, because I couldn’t pass his guard. I’m not a big guy, but I did have a size advantage on two of them. I realize my training with small joint locks is nowhere near as extensive as yours, but that’s my personal experience in trying to apply them on the floor, with guys who were better grapplers than me. I quickly learned that I couldn’t get the lock, as long as they could out-position me.

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This incessent and unsupported belief that someone who cannot prevail in a match on the mats with rules will somehow instantly transform into an unstoppable force on the streets in a “no-rules” melee is just absurd. If you cannot beat me at kickboxing, judo stlye randori or BJJ rolling you’re chances of defeating me on the streets is near zero, especially if you are placing all your fish into the “too deadly for the dojo” basket (small joint manipulations/eye gouges).

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[QUOTE=Corysan;2582282]I can assure you “full force” or “lethal” techniques can very well be practiced, if you saw my hands last week you’d see what i mean. This is done multiple ways. 1. partners get “armored up” specialized protective gear(attacker not defender), combat trainers call it the “red-suit”. 2. Specialized striking targets, like “The Bob” the anatomical rubber man, or other ancient methods(used in Kyusho Jitsu) for centuries. 3. Last but not least, this will sound crazy to some, healing arts (i won’t get detailed on that), just be assurred there’s a close relationship between killing and healing, ask an accupuncturist.
Maybe on the simplistic level, take the techniques in Judo and BJJ that require a uniform to pull them off, how many practice without Gi’s on? We certainly do, I also specially designed a course (100 key techniques) of which none of the techniques require a uniform. there ya have it![/QUOTE]
Ouch.

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[QUOTE=Corysan;2582258] It became clear how certain striking got in the way of them executing their techniques, and that was when I was being nice. In simple form, Tiger Claw techniques to eyes, throat, groin.[/QUOTE]

//youtu.be/fxZKZsqWdFw

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“Grabbing the balls not easy my brother.”

Good shit.

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[QUOTE=Petter;2582466]
//youtu.be/fxZKZsqWdFw
[/QUOTE]

The instructor (?) in the black rash guard has the most amazing accent. Bools, he’s going to grab my bools. Great video.

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[QUOTE=Petter;2582466]
//youtu.be/fxZKZsqWdFw
[/QUOTE]He sound like a Brazilian Good Fellow.

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It is always interesting to me when people talk about “sport” BJJ and how it is not lethal and made for killing.

Last time I checked…once you put someone to sleep…it is very easy to kill them. Really hold onto the choke for an extra minute and you’re there.

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Well you wear a gi, attempt techniques on a mat, multiple opponents, rules, tap, and immediately fall to the ground.

Did I get all of the strawman arguments?

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Words cannot express how glad I am that the Kodenkan instructor I train under is one of the apparently few ones who isn’t a complete asshole.

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The best part of this thread is a guy, who was still in diapers, telling another poster what occurred in their art.

Culled:
http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=107213

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[QUOTE=Corysan;2582282]I can assure you “full force” or “lethal” techniques can very well be practiced, if you saw my hands last week you’d see what i mean. This is done multiple ways. 1. partners get “armored up” specialized protective gear(attacker not defender), combat trainers call it the “red-suit”. 2. Specialized striking targets, like “The Bob” the anatomical rubber man, or other ancient methods(used in Kyusho Jitsu) for centuries. 3. Last but not least, this will sound crazy to some, healing arts (i won’t get detailed on that), just be assurred there’s a close relationship between killing and healing, ask an accupuncturist.
Maybe on the simplistic level, take the techniques in Judo and BJJ that require a uniform to pull them off, how many practice without Gi’s on? We certainly do, I also specially designed a course (100 key techniques) of which none of the techniques require a uniform. there ya have it![/QUOTE]

Yep, I regret asking.

You do realize you’re admitting to having some serious rules imposed in those scenarios, don’t you?

And gi vs no-gi??? Why can’t I know both kinds of techniques and use my opponent’s clothes to my advantage? I don’t meet many naked people during the course of my day – fewer still are the naked people threatening me with violence.